Gustavo Vazquez
Brazil
Curitiba
PR
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(image by user Grape Ape)
I would like to present a very different opinion about Dominion: Stash.
Dominion is by far my favorite game - the first one I ever gave a 10 point here at BGG. The game is just marvelous. 
But Stash doesn't really work for me - it's too strong and usually does not need to involve any kind of risk or strategy.
You see, it's not hard to buy it - let's say that you buy in your first two rounds two Silvers. Then, in the subsequent rounds, it's easy to get many Stashes.
If you buy three or four of them, it's a safe bet you will get a Province - you just place them all on the top of your deck. After that, you just need a couple of action cards that makes you deck runs faster - i.e., Courtyard, Envoy, anything with "+x cards" helps, so you can shuffle your deck as soon as possible and then you place the 4 stashes on the top again. 
Every time I've played with Stash it was a question of who could get more of it - and after that, the games were very fast and with very few strategies. Ok, you can counter the Stash if there's a Sabotage or a Pirate Ship on the table, but if there is not… 
I don't play with this card. I have no complains about any other card in the game, but this one makes the game really boring. But that's my humble opinion.
Anyway, it's cheap to buy, so I recommend to any Dominion player so you can get the whole collection!
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Mike Waleke
United States
Sugar Land
Texas
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I don't like the blackmarket promo card either, i think both of these cards change the gameplay too significantly. I.e. either by not limiting anyone to the 10 piles or by allowing you to literally stack your deck.
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Chris
United States
Austin
Texas
Glory to Rome!
"Let each man pass his days in that wherein his skill is greatest" Propertius Sextus
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Both Militia and Gardens from the base game can change the usefulness of Stash and you will find it is not as powerful in a setup containing those.
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Matthew Cordeiro
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
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darthnice wrote: Both Militia and Gardens from the base game can change the usefulness of Stash and you will find it is not as powerful in a setup containing those.
same goes for thief and spy, especially with the unique card back
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Dave G
United States
Illinois
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I don't really care for it, but I don't think it's overpowered. I wouldn't go out of my way to exclude it, anyway. Waiting for people to dig them out of the discards in a face to face game is kind of a pain, and same with the isotropic interface.
As an aside, I would suggest to the OP that you not give up so easy on any Dominion card. A lot of cards that seem to powerful at first reveal themselves to be pretty manageable over time.
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On my way to this thread I was wondering if the OP says it's OP or UP. I heard it all.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
Germany
Hanover
Lower Saxony
Stalker!!!
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I can imagine several combinations and setups, where Stash might lose badly. Some ideas:
- Possession
- Ghost Ship + any deck changing attack (Thief, Pirate Ship, Saboteur)
- Goons (especially with +actions)
Maybe there are more - I didn't do any brainstorming on this. Just what came to my mind spontaneously.
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Todd
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
Fez.
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I totally agree. I don't like any of the promo cards.
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Edward
United States
New York City
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Wait until the OP finds out how it's even better with Chancellor
And then you realize that a deck full of Silvers is not such a great thing if you happen to get Militia'd on the turn you draw your Stashes...
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Konata Izumi
United States
Dallas
Texas
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You want to talk about cards where whoever races to get the most will win, look at Laboratory/Minion.
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Joe Loviska
Zeeland
Michigan
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theory wrote: Wait until the OP finds out how it's even better with Chancellor And then you realize that a deck full of Silvers is not such a great thing if you happen to get Militia'd on the turn you draw your Stashes...
I played a game with someone who used this strategy, but I don't think he actually won the game. It can be effective, but if stash runs out, like in a four player game, then you might not get the required amount of stashes to do the Provence rush, and then you'll be stuck with a not so great strategy.
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David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
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Stash is just not OP. I think you must be playing every other strategy badly.
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djgutierrez77 wrote: I don't really care for it, but I don't think it's overpowered. I wouldn't go out of my way to exclude it, anyway. Waiting for people to dig them out of the discards in a face to face game is kind of a pain, and same with the isotropic interface.
+1 to that. Playing face-to-face, it's not that bad - usually, they are discarded seperately and just go together on top of the deck. But rigging it on the isotropic interface is a real pain, especially if you have anything fancy in mind.
Anyway, power-wise, Stash is fine. Any handsize attack could set it back, and plenty of decks will outrace your "all silver" deck with ease. Yeah, you have a sure thing every reshuffle, but just how quickly can you get your deck to reshuffle?
Some sets, Stash will be the card to beat. Like Theory says, watch for it with Chancellor. But that deck certainly has some problems too - essentially, if you don't draw a Chancellor, you're looking at some mighty crappy hands.
Finally, if you're stupid enough to leave your Stashes lying around to get hit by a Saboteur, Pirate Ship, Spy, or Thief, you deserve it. Depending on the number of players and the nature of the attacks, deciding just where to put your set of Stashes can be very difficult.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
Germany
Hanover
Lower Saxony
Stalker!!!
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DaviddesJ wrote: Stash is just not OP. I think you must be playing every other strategy badly.
Either he or his opponent... 
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Liz Burton
United States
Bethesda
Maryland
These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.
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Also, in sets with the Colony, it's not like you can stack your deck with 5 Stashes and buy a Colony.
I think it's an average card overall. In some sets it's useful and in some sets it's not really that great. I guess that can be said for lots of cards, which is what makes Dominion great overall. :>
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ronaldinho @boardspace.net
Taiwan
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With Prosperity, Silvers are the new Copper. Granted, not all setups feature Prosperity.
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Benjamin Parker
United States
Manchester
Connecticut
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madmanw wrote: I don't like the blackmarket promo card either, i think both of these cards change the gameplay too significantly. I.e. either by not limiting anyone to the 10 piles or by allowing you to literally stack your deck.
It's run of the mill in the regular game, but my friends and I play the black market variant (players' start decks are 6 coppers, 3 estates and a black market). Try it out; that's a good, fun game.
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Gustavo Vazquez
Brazil
Curitiba
PR
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madmanw wrote: I don't like the blackmarket promo card either, i think both of these cards change the gameplay too significantly. I.e. either by not limiting anyone to the 10 piles or by allowing you to literally stack your deck.
I agree - it's just so boring to take one card of each and make the BM deck... and organizing everything later...  and it does not add too much to the game - it's good enough as it is.
Yeah, many people said there's many ways to counter Stash. It's true - if you have attack cards like Pirate Ship I believe Stash is okay. But if there's not, it's a bad card - everybody runs after it etc. As I always drawn the cards randomly, I prefer to just keep Stash away!
But I believe those problems are the reason both cards are "expansion"/promos - they are not meant to be part of the game as the other cards do (probably Mr. Vaccarino designed them and soon thought they would change the game too much).
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Freelance Police
United States
Palo Alto
California
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FezAZ wrote: I totally agree. I don't like any of the promo cards.
IIRC, The promo cards were selected because they didn't *quite* make the cut, for one reason or another. I'm glad they're available, but I'm also glad I don't "need" them for the game.
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vazquezramos wrote: I agree - it's just so boring to take one card of each and make the BM deck... and organizing everything later...
It is. I don't do that though.
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Jeff Wolfe
United States
Columbus
Ohio
Zendo fan, Columbus Blue Jackets fan, Dominion Fan. These are 'permanent microbadges' to free up space on my microbadge row
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vazquezramos wrote: Every time I've played with Stash it was a question of who could get more of it - and after that, the games were very fast and with very few strategies.
This is not evidence of Stash's power. It's evidence of groupthink. If everybody always buys Stash, then Stash will always be a winning strategy. In many setups, Stash is not much more than overpriced Silver.
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ronaldinho @boardspace.net
Taiwan
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Off topic, but I hate the Black Market.
I think it needs specially designed cards, and use those instead of single "normal" cards.
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Ido Abelman
Israel
Hod Hasharon
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One province each reshuffle isn't that much... Many strategies can get to one province each turn relatively easily.
Also remember, there is nothing you can do with stash that you can't do with silvers and some luck. OK, a lot of luck, but I made my point.
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Dave G
United States
Illinois
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drunkenKOALA wrote: Off topic, but I hate the Black Market.
I think it needs specially designed cards, and use those instead of single "normal" cards.
I agree with this. The potential swings are just too great. I was in a game earlier this week where the other player got a Witch and a King's Court out of the Black Market deck. It was a hard fought game and I came closer than I thought I would to overcoming it, but I really think the difference in Black Market draws was the deciding factor.
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