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Subject: Using Find Gate spell when you're delayed rss

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Ken Meyers
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If you're drawn into the other world and delayed from a gate opening on your location, can you use your Find Gate spell on your next turn?

On your next turn, you would stand your investigator up,but I don't see why you still couldn't use the spell since you're in the movement phase. I was able to close the final gate on Azenthoth this way with 13/14 of his doom track filled up. One side of me says this was a cheap win and the other side of me says "well I won't always have this spell and situation again". It was tense. If my investigator had failed to close said gate, then the mythos phase would've started and then with 14/14 on the doom track, that's the end of the world folks.

Any clarification is appreciated.
Saucy Jack
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the entry on tha manual states that delayed means you receive no movement points and do not move at all.

Since Find Gate spell can be used only in the other world and being in the other world you get no movement points either delayed or normal, I can't see any problem with your act. I think you played it right!!
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I suppose you got drawn in the Mythos phase by an opening gate. So next turn after your upkeep in movemet stand your character up and cast the spell.
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Ken Meyers
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That is correct. I was drawn through the other world during the mythos phase, so by the next turn I was in the Other World and had just stood up during the movement phase. If I played it correctly then it seems Find Gate may be a good insurance policy. I mean the chances of that investigator been drawn through a gate are probably high, it still cut down on a turn to get ahead of the "closing gate/mythos opening gate curve". Also, in my specific game, I didn't have the luxury of extra turns. The end was nigh. Thanks for the feedback.
Saucy Jack
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Joe Pilkus
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Not to be a naysayer, but I believe that when drawn through a gate (during either the Arkham Encounter or Mythos Phase), the inividual is delayed and may not use the spell. In the case of being drawn through a gate during the Mythos Phase, the Investigator stands-up on the next turn's Movement Phase...that's it. The investigator will have at least one Other World Encounter before having the opportunity to use the Find Gate spell.
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John Anderson
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I think the ruling is that when you're delayed you don't get a movement phase at all, so you can't read tomes or cast movement phase spells. I do think you have to fight/evade monsters though, since they don't know you're delayed! But I think that's the only thing you can do during movement phase if you're delayed.
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puck71 wrote:
I think the ruling is that when you're delayed you don't get a movement phase at all, so you can't read tomes or cast movement phase spells.


there is no rule to specify that.
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Rauli Kettunen
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IIRC, leaked information from the proto-FAQ say it will mention that you can't cast any Movement Phase spells on the turn you flip up from delayed.
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Tim Hale
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When you're delayed, I essentially play it that you skip your movement phase, but still must deal with monsters. You get no movement points, can't use "movement" spells/items, and the like.

This seems the most balanced in fairness, and it's my belief that it's the rule's intention of being delayed. Otherwise, why worry about being delayed if you have the Patrol Wagon or Find Gate? Among others...
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it will??? when?
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say "em-cee-crispy"
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Siromist wrote:
puck71 wrote:
I think the ruling is that when you're delayed you don't get a movement phase at all, so you can't read tomes or cast movement phase spells.


there is no rule to specify that.
I'm afraid that I must strongly disagree with you there Siromist. From the AH rulebook:
Quote:
Delayed Investigators
During the game, certain effects can cause an investigator
to become delayed. When this occurs, place the
investigator marker on its side, indicating the delay.
Delayed investigators receive no movement points and
do not move during the Movement Phase. Instead, during
the investigator’s Movement Phase, the player stands
the investigator marker back up to show that the investigator
is no longer delayed. On the following turn, the
investigator will be able to move once again as normal.
my emphasis.

So if you get no movement points, you can't spend them on moving or reading tomes. The bit that is in dispute and that I can't find a ruling on is the ruling that you can't cast movement phase spells. But I'll defer to Tibs on that one - especially as it seems a reasonable ruling to me. (Thematically, I consider you to be disoriented, dazed and confused by your sudden immersion in the Other World. It is this that renders you unable to move of your own volition and incapable of concentrating enough to read a tome or cast a spell.)
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Tim Hale
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Actually, EmCee, you covered it! It says "instead" right under the bolded part. Also, it says you "do not move" right after the bolded part. These two things imply, to me, that INSTEAD of moving and reading tomes and such, you basically stand up your investigator. So you found the right rule, indeed. Albeit it takes interpreting, but that's what FAQs are for. For them to spell out every fiddly-bit that people don't understand or intentionally misinterpret :-D
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mccrispy wrote:
Siromist wrote:
puck71 wrote:
I think the ruling is that when you're delayed you don't get a movement phase at all, so you can't read tomes or cast movement phase spells.


there is no rule to specify that.
I'm afraid that I must strongly disagree with you there Siromist. From the AH rulebook:
Quote:
Delayed Investigators
During the game, certain effects can cause an investigator
to become delayed. When this occurs, place the
investigator marker on its side, indicating the delay.
Delayed investigators receive no movement points and
do not move during the Movement Phase. Instead, during
the investigator’s Movement Phase, the player stands
the investigator marker back up to show that the investigator
is no longer delayed. On the following turn, the
investigator will be able to move once again as normal.
my emphasis.

So if you get no movement points, you can't spend them on moving or reading tomes. The bit that is in dispute and that I can't find a ruling on is the ruling that you can't cast movement phase spells. But I'll defer to Tibs on that one - especially as it seems a reasonable ruling to me. (Thematically, I consider you to be disoriented, dazed and confused by your sudden immersion in the Other World. It is this that renders you unable to move of your own volition and incapable of concentrating enough to read a tome or cast a spell.)


mccrispy the find gate spell asks you for no movement points to spend. whether being delayed in the other world or not, you get no movement points and the find gate spell can be used only in the other worlds.
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Rauli Kettunen
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I can see the FG ruling when starting delayed, but IIRC, same ruling will also nerf non-moving, Movement Phase spells like Vision Quest when delayed soblue .
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brian
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Saucy Jack wrote:
If you're drawn into the other world and delayed from a gate opening on your location, can you use your Find Gate spell on your next turn?

On your next turn, you would stand your investigator up,but I don't see why you still couldn't use the spell since you're in the movement phase. I was able to close the final gate on Azenthoth this way with 13/14 of his doom track filled up. One side of me says this was a cheap win and the other side of me says "well I won't always have this spell and situation again". It was tense. If my investigator had failed to close said gate, then the mythos phase would've started and then with 14/14 on the doom track, that's the end of the world folks.

Any clarification is appreciated.
Saucy Jack

As the rules stand now, you can use the find gate spell in this case and move back immediately to Arkham. As it stands, being delayed does not affect your ability to cast spells.

Because of this issue and a few others, it was asked to be looked at under the new FAQ. We have been asked not to discuss any prelim answers we may have seen as it is possible for them to change before the final publication.

But we have asked them to clarify what happens to movement, movement points, and movement spells during the time you are delayed.
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say "em-cee-crispy"
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Siromist wrote:


mccrispy the find gate spell asks you for no movement points to spend. whether being delayed in the other world or not, you get no movement points and the find gate spell can be used only in the other worlds.
I agree, as I said: the bit that's in dispute is the effect of being delayed on casting spells that are movement phase. I'm not disputing that Find Gate is an OW only spell - that much is clear. What I'm trying to show in support of Dam and Ecno is that there are severe constraints on movement phase activities as a result of being delayed. This includes movement and reading tomes (irrespective of whether you're in OW or not) and it seems logical to me to extend this to include movement phase spells.
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EcnoTheNeato wrote:

This seems the most balanced in fairness, and it's my belief that it's the rule's intention of being delayed. Otherwise, why worry about being delayed if you have the Patrol Wagon or Find Gate? Among others...


look. you are delayed only in 3 cases:

1)you are sucked through the gate due to an opening there (in Mythos phase)
2) you get unconcious or insane in the other world
3) a result instructs you to be delayed

case 1:
the only reason to be delayed is that you must have 2 other world encounters before returning to Arkham. If you were not delayed you would get only 1.

case2:
you are delayed and moved to lost in time and space area by discarding half your items, clue tokens and all retainers.
then you lose one whole turn. in movement phase of this turnyou stand your character on the lost in time and space area. In the next upkeep you move your character wherever you want in Arkham.
conclusion: by losing a turn you can't use any movement phase items and spells
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Tim Hale
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...okay...not sure what you're getting at there, or what it has to do with anything. But yes, you covered what happens when LiTaS quite well...
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Saucy Jack wrote:
If you're drawn into the other world and delayed from a gate opening on your location, can you use your Find Gate spell on your next turn?

On your next turn, you would stand your investigator up,but I don't see why you still couldn't use the spell since you're in the movement phase. I was able to close the final gate on Azenthoth this way with 13/14 of his doom track filled up. One side of me says this was a cheap win and the other side of me says "well I won't always have this spell and situation again". It was tense. If my investigator had failed to close said gate, then the mythos phase would've started and then with 14/14 on the doom track, that's the end of the world folks.

Any clarification is appreciated.
Saucy Jack

As the rules stand now, you can use the find gate spell in this case and move back immediately to Arkham. As it stands, being delayed does not affect your ability to cast spells.

Because of this issue and a few others, it was asked to be looked at under the new FAQ. We have been asked not to discuss any prelim answers we may have seen as it is possible for them to change before the final publication.

But we have asked them to clarify what happens to movement, movement points, and movement spells during the time you are delayed.


where is this new FAQ is going to be published?
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Joe Pilkus
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Bottom Line: The designers did not intend to have Investigators travel to/from an Other World without having at least 1 encounter. The way a number of individuals have framed this scenario appears to present it as a way in which an Investigator can, in fact, have zero encounters in an Other World and Return to Arkham via the Find Gate spell.
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brian
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The Professor wrote:
Bottom Line: The designers did not intend to have Investigators travel to/from an Other World without having at least 1 encounter. The way a number of individuals have framed this scenario appears to present it as a way in which an Investigator can, in fact, have zero encounters in th Other World and Return to Arkham via the Find Gate spell.

Yes, I am fairly certain this was not the designer's intent either, based on feedback of other answers on the topic.

As such, I think the FAQ is going to shut this down. But the verbiage that may do this needs to weigh on on what other situations would be affected.
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Adam Tucker
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
The Professor wrote:
Bottom Line: The designers did not intend to have Investigators travel to/from an Other World without having at least 1 encounter. The way a number of individuals have framed this scenario appears to present it as a way in which an Investigator can, in fact, have zero encounters in th Other World and Return to Arkham via the Find Gate spell.

Yes, I am fairly certain this was not the designer's intent either, based on feedback of other answers on the topic.

As such, I think the FAQ is going to shut this down. But the verbiage that may do this needs to weigh on on what other situations would be affected.

Saucy Jack wrote:
but I don't see why you still couldn't use the spell since you're in the movement phase.


Based on what's been said here. the White Ship from Kingsport combined with Find Gate is seriously broken, because after an investigator uses the White Ship instead of their normal movement, it would still be that investigator's movement phase.

Please, please tell me this will be addressed in the ever-soon-to-be-released, updated, comprehensive FAQ.
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John Anderson
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Siromist wrote:
puck71 wrote:
I think the ruling is that when you're delayed you don't get a movement phase at all, so you can't read tomes or cast movement phase spells.


there is no rule to specify that.
You're right, that's why I said "ruling" and not "rule." It hasn't been official released as a ruling yet, though, but it does appear that it will be the ruling.
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ok maybe you are right. Let's wait for an official answer
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Bob T
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"Find Gate" is cast during your Movement phase; but if you're delayed your ENTIRE Movement phase consists of standing your Investigator token up, period, so you can't cast the spell till the NEXT movement phase.

You always have to have at least one encounter in the Other Worlds. The rules all seem to be set up that way, it's a good rule of thumb.
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