Ryan O'Connell
United States
Greensboro
North Carolina
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I have made a chart:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?hl=en&hl=en&key=0Auj4RmE...
Can anyone spot any errors? Interesting that it seems if Frodo attacks the wrong people (Saruman or Cave Troll), it's an instant game over?
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Chris Ferejohn
United States
San Francisco
California
Pitying fools as hard as I can...
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Wideshanks wrote:
Umm, yeah, you should basically almost never be attacking with Frodo...
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Eric Walkingshaw
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
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I spot a few problems:
#1: You have a row for "Sam (with Frodo)" attacking, but Sam can only ever be with Frodo when he's defending.
#2: The entry for "Saruman (no cards)" (attacker) x "Frodo (replaced)" (defender) should be "Dies" instead of "Both die".
#3: The strength of "Frodo (replaced)" should just be 5, I think.
(Also, this line doesn't really seem necessary, since it's just the same as "Sam (with Frodo)". Edit: Oh wait, I see that you wanted to put "Can't replace" in there. Never mind, carry on.) :)
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W M Shubert
United States
Portland
Oregon
KGS is the #1 web site for playing go over the internet. Visit now!
Yes, I really am that awesome.
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Wideshanks wrote: Can anyone spot any errors? Interesting that it seems if Frodo attacks the wrong people (Saruman or Cave Troll), it's an instant game over? Frodo attacking Saruman loses the game, but against the cave troll he can always play the retreat card.
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Eric Walkingshaw
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
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wmshub wrote: Wideshanks wrote: Can anyone spot any errors? Interesting that it seems if Frodo attacks the wrong people (Saruman or Cave Troll), it's an instant game over? Frodo attacking Saruman loses the game, but against the cave troll he can always play the retreat card.
Yes, this table does seem to be confusing two things. Insta-kills (Merry vs. Witch King, Legolas vs. Nazgul, etc.) and "overwhelming strength" (Cave Troll vs. most people) are indicated identically, when they are not identical at all because of the potential card play (Retreat and Noble Sacrifice).
Even with the overwhelming strength concept in place, Aragorn should be listed as -5, not "Dies", since the FP have a 5 strength card that could be used to take the Cave Troll down with Aragorn.
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Ryan O'Connell
United States
Greensboro
North Carolina
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First of all, awesome: exactly the kind of response I was hoping for.
Now, Eric:
"#1: You have a row for "Sam (with Frodo)" attacking, but Sam can only ever be with Frodo when he's defending."
I just now made the connection that an attacker always attacks alone since he has to leave the space he was just in.
"#2: The entry for ... should be Dies instead of Both die."
Yes it should.
"against the cave troll he can always play the retreat card."
"when they are not identical at all because of the potential card play (Retreat and Noble Sacrifice)."
Yes, I forgot about the combat cards with text on them.
So maybe it would be more useful to have a chart which shows only the forced actions: https://spreadsheets0.google.com/pub?hl=en&hl=en&key=0Auj4Rm...
Instant kills and deaths are highlighted; Saruman [no cards] has kills and deaths because no cards are allowed and the result is known; shown is blue is when the disparity in strength sometimes requires the defender to play a text card (eg. retreat/noble sacrifice: shown as D. card) or die; and also when Pippin must retreat or die.
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Eric Walkingshaw
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
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The new chart looks nice, although the Frodo column is still a little confusing. Frodo can (and usually does) retreat against everyone except the Warg, but this suggests that he only retreats when facing overwhelming odds. Also, unlike instant kills/deaths, retreating is only sometimes possible--if there isn't a free adjacent space, Frodo can't retreat.
Frodo retreating seems closer to the blue cases to me than the (few other) orange cases. He must retreat or die, just like in Pippin's attack cases. Although unlike Pippin, it isn't always possible.
Otherwise I think it looks sharp.
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Ryan O'Connell
United States
Greensboro
North Carolina
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Here's a pdf:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&...
Although it seems like the Saruman without cards situations would be instant for most characters (like Legolas), because there would be no card-playing phase and they have no special ability that would let them retreat or defeat Saruman.
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