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Subject: Want these rss

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Chris Schenck
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flintlocklaser wrote:
cbs42 wrote:
It seems that some of the enjoyment of a Kickstarter bonus comes from the knowledge that others cannot have it. I find that fascinating.


That seems like a very uncharitable reading of his motivation.

Well, if he says that wasn't his motivation, then I'm sure that's true for him. I have no reason to suspect he's lying.

I also don't think that a Kickstarter promo of "order now and you'll get the same bonus everyone else will get" would be as popular of an offer. So it would seem that the exclusive nature of an item (i.e. - the fact that others cannot get it) is indeed a factor for some people.
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Anthony Baldassar
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cbs42 wrote:
Lest my intentions be misunderstood, I'm not calling your motives into question or judging your values. I'm trying to find out what type of Kickstarter bonuses work best, and why. The "why" part is the most interesting to me.

It seems that some of the enjoyment of a Kickstarter bonus comes from the knowledge that others cannot have it. I find that fascinating.

Regarding why I didn't help to Kickstart the game: It didn't interest me enough to preorder it, nor to lay out cash for it. I got in in a trade from someone who did help to Kickstart it.


To date I've commited to 17 games on kickstarter 14 that have been funded and 1 that failed funding and 2 that are still open - I fund these projects to help in some cases small publishers that would not be able to get there games published otherwise - I also fund the games because in some cases this might be the only way to get a copy, limited run - One other thing I also look at is the offer for funding what are they offering to support. Yes it is important to me otherwise I'd just wait til the game came out.

The point of the kickstarter program is that each party gets something out of the deal.
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Chris Schenck
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tebald wrote:
I fund these projects to help in some cases small publishers that would not be able to get there games published otherwise

That's very cool.

I love the fact that Kickstarter has opened up the realm of game publishing to a wider base of designers. I think that'll be a wonderful thing for the long-term health and creativity of this hobby.
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Chris Schenck
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Well, this thread has wildly diverged from it's original intent -- which was the OP looking for a set of the bonus planets. I'm partly to blame, but in my defense it diverged before I got here anyway.


So, since we're totally off the rails anyway, let me ask another question: What do you think about large established publishers using Kickstarter?

I don't think this would ever happen, but if a big publisher like Fantasy Flight decided to hit Kickstarter, what would be your reaction? From a financial standpoint, they certainly wouldn't need Kickstarter. But the fact that they could completely defray the production cost of an upcoming game seems like it would be a tempting offer. Let's face it, if FFG put some high profile game with a sweet bonus on Kickstarter, it would get 9000% funded in no time. That's free money to them once it exceeds the production cost.

Since Kickstarter has the reputation of being for the little guy, I bet a notable number of people would be highly offended by the move. But I don't think it would prevent the project from getting a ludicrous amount of funding in no time flat.
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David Dawson
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I don't know about that, but it seems the answer to my question was: "LGS, Kickstarters and TMG.com orders will have the bonus planets, other places probably/maybe don't".
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Seth Jaffee
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cbs42 wrote:
Well, this thread has wildly diverged from it's original intent -- which was the OP looking for a set of the bonus planets. I'm partly to blame, but in my defense it diverged before I got here anyway.


So, since we're totally off the rails anyway, let me ask another question: What do you think about large established publishers using Kickstarter?

I don't think this would ever happen, but if a big publisher like Fantasy Flight decided to hit Kickstarter, what would be your reaction? From a financial standpoint, they certainly wouldn't need Kickstarter. But the fact that they could completely defray the production cost of an upcoming game seems like it would be a tempting offer. Let's face it, if FFG put some high profile game with a sweet bonus on Kickstarter, it would get 9000% funded in no time. That's free money to them once it exceeds the production cost.

Since Kickstarter has the reputation of being for the little guy, I bet a notable number of people would be highly offended by the move. But I don't think it would prevent the project from getting a ludicrous amount of funding in no time flat.

Kickstarter is something of a hot topic - I think it would be more helpful for everyone if any question like this were asked in a new thread specifically for that. It would be easier to find, and people who are simply interested in EmDo and not a kickstarter debate would not get it in their subscription.
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Ken Coble
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cbs42 wrote:
So it would seem that the exclusive nature of an item (i.e. - the fact that others cannot get it) is indeed a factor for some people.


I still think you're missing my (and probably his) point. The problem is not that other people get the promo - the problem is that (at least some) people were incentivized into purchasing via Kickstarter, when they'd have preferred other vendors, or being able to wait for more concrete reviews, based on the idea that to do so was the only way to get the bonus cards - and then it turns out that wasn't the case, and they could have waited for the regular retail version. So again, it's not about having something other people don't; it's about being told there's only one way to get the bonus, weighing that into your purchase decision, and then finding out that it wasn't the case after all.

I do agree that you're probably right that non-exclusive items would be less of a draw to get Kickstarter supporters; I just think that for most people the motivation is less about other people and being 'ahead' of them, and more about the idea that in return for the added risk and expense of a Kickstarter purchase, your compensation is a promo you can't get elsewhere. Does that distinction make sense? I'm not sure I'm phrasing it well.
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flintlocklaser wrote:
cbs42 wrote:
So it would seem that the exclusive nature of an item (i.e. - the fact that others cannot get it) is indeed a factor for some people.


I still think you're missing my (and probably his) point.

Yes, the point is still being missed.

I'm totally cool with every single man, woman, and child on the planet having the freaking promos if they want them. It's not at all about me feeling more special or fulfilled as a human being because I own the promo planets and you don't. If they had said from the get-go that the expansion would be available in all of the first print run copies, I wouldn't feel even a little bit perturbed.

The big deal is that I was led to believe that the only way I could get the promo planets was to back it on Kickstarter. As it turns out, that wasn't true, so I feel misled. Bad taste in my mouth. End of story.
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Chris Schenck
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flintlocklaser wrote:
Does that distinction make sense? I'm not sure I'm phrasing it well.

Yep, you phrased it just fine. I get the distinction between the two issues. I can understand why you feel misled.
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Chris Schenck
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kilroy_locke wrote:
If they had said from the get-go that the expansion would be available in all of the first print run copies, I wouldn't feel even a little bit perturbed.

But would you have Kickstarted it?

Maybe so for you. But I'm guessing some (possibly many) folks would change their mind without the exclusive nature of the bonus. Like I said earlier, "you'll get the same bonus that everyone else who eventually purchases it will get" doesn't seem like it would really rack up the preorders, does it?


EDIT: In respect for Seth's request to knock it the hell off (though he said it much more politely), I'll bow out here. I think Kickstarter is a really cool tool, and I also think that it raises a lot of interesting questions about the motivations behind supporting a product. I'd love to keep exploring those issues, but I'll do it in a proper thread dedicated to the subject. Sorry for the disruption.

Game on!

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Ross Lewis
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Count yourselves lucky! im still waiting for my kickstarter copy to arrive!

add to it that after ive paid the full amount to the co ordinator (total around £35-£40) I could of just not supported and got everything everyone else is getting for £25 from Boardgameextras (3 weeks ago!!!!) lol
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Jason Robinette
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Just saying... it seems to me that while some definitely came on board for the promise of cards that they might not be able to get otherwise...

...if all of those people decided NOT to participate in the Kickstarter... the game may very well have not been published, no?

So the promise of exclusive promos aside for the moment...shouldn't we be glad that the game was printed?

I realize the bad taste issue, I've come up against it many times in the last couple of decades... There is usually a good way to maintain exclusivity while still offering equal gameplay (alternate art, special (foil, etc.) treatments, etc.)

J
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Anthony Baldassar
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I hope all this makes since. Sometimes I think faster then I type but it all make perfert since to me.
If you want your game to be published and you decide to go the way of kickstarter you need to be honest. It’s something called integrity. What would any publisher have to gain by being deceitful?
I’ll tell you this, I’ve unsubscribed from there email notifications and I’ll no longer support TMG.
I was on board from day one with Homesteaders and Terra Prime. The first thing that bothered me is the ones that jumped on to support TMG for the next launch of games all the options included games from there 1st launch - I didn’t want a second copy, so I didn’t do the pre order - Now they made a promise in order to get a game launched and gouged the supporters - and I’ll repeat my self, I paid $35.00 and now they’re selling the same thing to those to scared to put there money where there mouth is at $25.00 what a way to reward your supporters.(And by the way where were you for the kickstart of this game)
I really don’t care how great the game is or how poor it is - I’m done with TMG products.

That’s my personal choice

Thanos wrote:
Just saying... it seems to me that while some definitely came on board for the promise of cards that they might not be able to get otherwise...

...if all of those people decided NOT to participate in the Kickstarter... the game may very well have not been published, no?

So the promise of exclusive promos aside for the moment...shouldn't we be glad that the game was printed?

I realize the bad taste issue, I've come up against it many times in the last couple of decades... There is usually a good way to maintain exclusivity while still offering equal gameplay (alternate art, special (foil, etc.) treatments, etc.)

J
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Jason Robinette
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I'm not disagreeing with you in the least. In fact, as I mentioned, I think there are ways to retain promised exclusivity while still offering as much as possible to everyone.

(honestly, I'd hate to see exclusive gameplay... that's rather frustrating in any form... but exclusive presentation is aok with me.)

I respect your position, and I completely understand what brought you there.
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Jon
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tebald wrote:
...of us like myself contributed $35.00 for one copy of the game with exclusive cards provided - it doesn’t make the game any less fun, it’s the dedication and respect we have for the fairly new game company to provide quality games and to stand by there word...


Guess I got ripped off when my FLGS sold it to me for $39.95 with the planets. Rage against the locals!
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William Springer
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Thanos wrote:
(honestly, I'd hate to see exclusive gameplay... that's rather frustrating in any form... but exclusive presentation is aok with me.)


I like the way that Treefrog does their limited editions. The gameplay is exactly the same regardless of which edition you have; the limited versions just have slightly nicer components (and an autograph).
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is there any way of knowing if your box has the promos inside, without actually opening up the box?
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Seth Jaffee
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abe18 wrote:
is there any way of knowing if your box has the promos inside, without actually opening up the box?

There was a"Bonus Planets Included" sticker on the boxes that contained them, but that sticker was on the shrink wrap. In theory, any box on the shelf at a store would have the sticker if it were from the 1st run and included the bonus planets.

Edit to fix typo
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So it goes.
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flintlocklaser wrote:
cbs42 wrote:
It seems that some of the enjoyment of a Kickstarter bonus comes from the knowledge that others cannot have it. I find that fascinating.


That seems like a very uncharitable reading of his motivation. I know in my case, when I hear about an allegedly 'exclusive' promo item, I'm not thinking "I'll have this and the retail peons won't, ha ha ha." I'm thinking "Damn, if I ever want to get this promo I have to do it now, via the terms of this exclusive offer." And like Chris said, that means setting aside normal considerations like waiting for reviews, or getting it at your FLGS or your favorite on-line store, or whatever. So it's less about 'the knowledge that others cannot have it,' and more about feeling like you were misled if you were told there was only one way to get a promo and then finding out that wasn't the case.


Exactly. It's like buying those awesome steak knives from the guy on TV at 19.99 each because he said "you will never be able to buy these in stores, its a TV only offer" and then seeing them in a store a few months later at 14.99 each AND they include the extra set of exclusive apple peelers from the infomercial.

Silly example, but its the best analogy I can come up with right now. And it should be noted that I supported TMG twice, for Eminent Domain and their 1st releases Homesteaders and Terra Prime and all the problems that came along with that.
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Brian Theissen
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I have recently been funding KS games. 4 to date. I think it is a win win situation when you geta copy of the game for a better price (seriously it didn't cost the KS $35 to make the game they are still making a profit off of my free money) because I gave them free money. Then when they meet thier goal and start offering strech promos I feel like I did a good thing giving them my money.I would be very disapointed to find that my promised exclusive promo was being offered to everyone else at a cut rate price (Tanga special yesterday = $19.99 with Planet Promo). My gaming buddies all buy different versions of promos so that we have a different experience when playing a favorite game at each others house.

What makes me most sad about this thread is that the game developer never interacted one way or the other in here. Pretty sad!

I was too late to the game to get in on the KS for the expansion for ED. Now I am not sure I am really bummed to have missed out on it.
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Piotr Konieczny
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I'd have supported this on KS if I was aware of the KS in question.

I think any such add-ons should be available later. The KS supporters should be happy that they got it first, and cheaper. But if it is not available later, then yes, anyone who thinks it's ok seems to me to be in the "ha, ha, you peons cannot have my exclusive shiny toy club".
 
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Prokonsul Piotrus wrote:
I'd have supported this on KS if I was aware of the KS in question.

I think any such add-ons should be available later. The KS supporters should be happy that they got it first, and cheaper. But if it is not available later, then yes, anyone who thinks it's ok seems to me to be in the "ha, ha, you peons cannot have my exclusive shiny toy club".


No.
 
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