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Empires of the Middle Ages» Forums » Rules

Subject: Conversion Rating & Hungary rss

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Wendell
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The Conversion chart lists several groups for their convictional strength rating. For the pagans, they are Germanic, Slavonic and Baltic.

But... where the hell does Hungary fit? They are pagan in some scenarios, and Hungary is not part of any of those language groups.

So, what is Hungary's convictional strength rating?
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Brian Sielski
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You nailed it on the head. The Maygars were not part of any familiar language group, so I think you know your answer.

Doc
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Wendell
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Dr Brian wrote:
You nailed it on the head. The Maygars were not part of any familiar language group, so I think you know your answer.

Doc


Poorly-written-wargame-rules strike again!
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Mark McG
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wifwendell wrote:
The Conversion chart lists several groups for their convictional strength rating. For the pagans, they are Germanic, Slavonic and Baltic.

But... where the hell does Hungary fit? They are pagan in some scenarios, and Hungary is not part of any of those language groups.

So, what is Hungary's convictional strength rating?


Which scenarios?
In the 1st edition, Hungary is Roman Catholic, and in a quick review I couldn't see any scenarios that they were Pagan in.

Historically, Wikipedia says they were a Christian Realm from the 9th Century, following the Western tradition.

So except for the Charlemagne scenario, which pre-dates the Hungarians and Hungary would be the pagan Avars mixed with Slavonic peoples and even older Dacian peoples.

Best guess, if Hungary is listed as Pagan, Conversion Rating = 14
 
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Wendell
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Minedog3 wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
The Conversion chart lists several groups for their convictional strength rating. For the pagans, they are Germanic, Slavonic and Baltic.

But... where the hell does Hungary fit? They are pagan in some scenarios, and Hungary is not part of any of those language groups.

So, what is Hungary's convictional strength rating?


Which scenarios?
In the 1st edition, Hungary is Roman Catholic, and in a quick review I couldn't see any scenarios that they were Pagan in.

Historically, Wikipedia says they were a Christian Realm from the 9th Century, following the Western tradition.

So except for the Charlemagne scenario, which pre-dates the Hungarians and Hungary would be the pagan Avars mixed with Slavonic peoples and even older Dacian peoples.

Best guess, if Hungary is listed as Pagan, Conversion Rating = 14


The Decision Games MAP has Hungary as Pagan, which implies that it would start as pagan unless the scenario set-up says otherwise. The "Age of Crusades" scenario is silent on Hungary.

HOWEVER -- the Charlemagne scenario includes in the list of areas where "the religion or church...are different from the religion or church indicated on the map" HUNGARY as pagan.

That implies that the map is wrong for Hungary. I've seen three earlier map corrections (Anatolia, Armenia, Brittany). Sounds like a fourth one is needed.

In any case, it STILL does not answer the question about Hungary's convictional strength rating.
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Brian Sielski
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Well, when I played the campaign (DG version), I considered it Pagan (obviously). It's in the 700 group (non-indo european). It comes down to 20, 16, or 14 ....

Since the Magyars are a special breed ... make it 18 .... or if you want to consider them Baltic Pagan (not unreasonable due to proximity), make them 16.

But I wouldn't go under 16, nor 20. Hence my preference for 18.

Doc
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John Graham-Leigh
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Hungary should be pagan in any scenarios starting before 1000 AD. Historically the Hungarians weren't forcibly converted by outsiders so a house rule making Hungary Catholic around 1000-1050 would be reasonable. As with many other countries, conversion was a top-down affair started by King Geza and then led by King (Saint) Stephen; there was a pagan reaction after Stephen's death in 1038 and the process took several generations.
 
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