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Last night's Lurker game we had a couple of reckonings come up:
Quote: Bargain of the Gate: The investigator with the most Power moves to the Other World of his choice (ties broken by the first player).
Through the Threshold: Every investigator in Arkham with 1 or more Power is drawn through the closest open Gate (his choice if there is a tie).
Are investigators drawn through this way (probably in Mythos, potentially in Arkham Encounters or Movement) delayed as a result? It doesn't explicitly say that they are, but it feels really wrong that they wouldn't be.
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Simon Tan
Philippines
Quezon City
Metro Manila
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Being delayed is specific only to having a gate appear from under you. Just as having a nightgaunt pull you to a gate won't delay you, traveling to a gate by any means other than having it pop up from under you will not delay you.
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I'm not sure it's that clear.
Firstly, in general the rule seems to be that if you intentionally enter a gate, you aren't delayed; if you unintentionally enter a gate, you are. Nightgaunts are an exception to this.
Secondly, if you get these reckonings, as is most likely, in the Mythos phase, then if you're not delayed you only need to have one OW encounter before you can escape. Given that the reckonings are supposed to be a punishment, not assistance, that seems a little too nice.
The basic AH rules clearly aren't designed with the possibility that someone might be drawn through a gate they aren't on, so I do think this requires more clarification.
Quote: If an investigator is drawn through a gate that appears as a result of an encounter (such as “A gate appears!” or “A gate and a monster appear!”), then he is delayed, just as if he had been drawn through a gate in the Mythos Phase. and Quote: If a gate opens at a location that contains an investigator, he is immediately drawn through the gate to the first area of the corresponding Other World. As a result of the sudden disorientation caused by the gate swallowing him, the investigator is delayed.
The first implies that any drawing through gates in Mythos delays you; the second does not. Read completely literally, though, it implies that someone drawn by the reckoning through the gate which just opened in Arkham Encounters would be delayed, but someone drawn through a different gate by the same reckoning would not, which is even more absurd.
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Simon Tan
Philippines
Quezon City
Metro Manila
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Fair point. On one hand, there is no specific rule saying that "Nightgaunts are an exception to this," while on the other hand, it has always been the intention that an investigator goes through a minimum of two OW encounters (barring a Find Gate or a merciful encounter).
As intentions don't fix rules (errata and FAQ does), the closest to the official answer would be to wait for the new FAQ (rumored to come out with the Miskatonic expansion), but otherwise rule in favor of the Ancient One.
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Tibs
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
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I wouldn't get too excited about the FAQ coming out with Miskatonic, since clearly there are new expansions now with questions to be answered.
Though it is the intent that investigators should generally get two OW encounters before returning, the only rule I know about that causes the delay is when the gate opens on the investigator. I'd say that you're not delayed in this case, because the first reckoning is a "bargain," which can be good, and the other one pulls a bunch of investigators to the nearest gates, which may not necessarily be the ones they wanted to enter.
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it's pronounced "em cee crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
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__cim__ wrote: I'm not sure it's that clear. Firstly, in general the rule seems to be that if you intentionally enter a gate, you aren't delayed; if you unintentionally enter a gate, you are. Nightgaunts are an exception to this. Secondly, if you get these reckonings, as is most likely, in the Mythos phase, then if you're not delayed you only need to have one OW encounter before you can escape. Given that the reckonings are supposed to be a punishment, not assistance, that seems a little too nice. The basic AH rules clearly aren't designed with the possibility that someone might be drawn through a gate they aren't on, so I do think this requires more clarification. Quote: If an investigator is drawn through a gate that appears as a result of an encounter (such as “A gate appears!” or “A gate and a monster appear!”), then he is delayed, just as if he had been drawn through a gate in the Mythos Phase. and Quote: If a gate opens at a location that contains an investigator, he is immediately drawn through the gate to the first area of the corresponding Other World. As a result of the sudden disorientation caused by the gate swallowing him, the investigator is delayed. The first implies that any drawing through gates in Mythos delays you; the second does not. Read completely literally, though, it implies that someone drawn by the reckoning through the gate which just opened in Arkham Encounters would be delayed, but someone drawn through a different gate by the same reckoning would not, which is even more absurd.
However, to take a thematic approach to solving the conundrum of the Reckoning, I'd say that you are dragged kicking and screaming through the nearest Gate by horrible tentacles that drag you back to the OW Dimension for "a reckoning". This is unplanned by you and you are unprepared and the tentacle has no need or desire to "be gentle". I can see this as an event that would cause disorientation by its sudden-ness.
In thematic terms this would justify taking a game mechanics approach that triggered the "delayed" mechanism, which is merely there to ensure that you have a minimum of two OW encounters before returning.
In the case of a Nightgaunt carrying you through a Gate, the method that they use to transition between dimensions is more "natural" and so you are shielded from the effect of a sudden and unintentional transition. After all, Nightgaunts aren't always entirely inimical to humans.
So while I don't agree with your reasoning, I do agree with your conclusion that you should be delayed by being dragged through a Gate for a Reckoning.
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Simon Tan
Philippines
Quezon City
Metro Manila
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Based on the comments of Tibs and mccrispy, especially the highlighted parts, the ruling would be that there is no delay.
The problem with using theme to interpret the rules is that it is open to any interpretation. One could also interpret that the investigators who are drawn are called to the gate the same way a moth is drawn to the light... without violence or disorientation. (The Lurker's reputation for being more of a coin-toss herald doesn't help, either.) I would assume that it could cause quarrels amongst members of a playgroup if used too often.
As it is, if the rules are silent, then there's no reason to assume something is there. Since the rules only state that the investigator gets delayed on a gate opening on him, then that is the only time it happens.
Note to FFG: Please get an editing team that knows how to write rulebooks with consistency; differences in terms (delayed vs. "Stay here next turn," for example) are big headaches that create unneeded issues.
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it's pronounced "em cee crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
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goodshepherd wrote: Based on the comments of Tibs and mccrispy, especially the highlighted parts, the ruling would be that there is no delay.
The problem with using theme to interpret the rules is that it is open to any interpretation. One could also interpret that the investigators who are drawn are called to the gate the same way a moth is drawn to the light... without violence or disorientation. (The Lurker's reputation for being more of a coin-toss herald doesn't help, either.) I would assume that it could cause quarrels amongst members of a playgroup if used too often. I understand your reticence to use Theme as the basis for a rules clarification. To be honest, I have usually already figured the rule "logic" or the game mechanic and am using theme to describe the ruling "in game terms". That being said, I'm always more comfortable with a clarification if it makes sense thematically (even if there are other thematic descriptions); if the first thematic description that pops into my mind also agrees with my rule clarification then I have a higher degree of confidence in my understanding of the rule.
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