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Subject: How do you deal with possible mistakes? rss

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Probably a dumb question, but yesterday we had this case:
I'm the "rule master" and I always try to help my family to learn the game the right way, so I explained the rule about bulding structures "Important : a player can never build two identical structures
(meaning those with the same name/the same illustration).".

Then, playing, I DID this mistake... and I noticed it while we were moving to the next hand. (same green structures)

How do you deal with this?

And what about the case that we had already moved? And if this occurred at the end of the game?

Thank you.
 
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Paul S
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
I'd say you can't count the duplicate. Pointless (and arguably impossible) to re-create history, so you just lose the points you would have had for that card. Your mistake, your loss. Seems fair to me.
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William Simonitis
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
I don't know if this is the best way, but in the past when we have had this problem, we have had the player discard the building and take three coins from the bank and treated it as if the player had discarded the card for money instead.

It is just as much that player's fault as it is for his neighbors not catching it (especially in a "teaching" game), so we try to be relatively forgiving to everyone. When we play 7 Wonders it is for the fun factor of sitting a bunch of friends around a big table and socializing, not so much the competitive nature of other games we have.
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Nick Fisk
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
supertopix wrote:

How do you deal with this?

And what about the case that we had already moved? And if this occurred at the end of the game?

Thank you.


The answer above first answer is probably the fairest to the other players.

If you want to be a little more generous, I guess you could say "throw the card away and take 3 coins" ?



N.


Edited because I was too slow
 
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Blue Jackal
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
Toss the card for 3 coins, which seems perfectly fair, given it was an option when the player drafted the card and it's an easy mistake to make. I made that mistake when I was learning the game, and another player caught my mistake and let me toss it for 3 coins - then he made the same mistake later in the game.
 
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Gareth Reynolds
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
supertopix wrote:
Then, playing, I DID this mistake... and I noticed it while we were moving to the next hand. (same green structures)

How do you deal with this?
I had this happen in a recent game. I wasn't thinking about the inability to build the same thing twice and put down a second Forum. A turn or two later I realised what I'd done and put the money aside, effectively out of the game for the rest of it
On the whole I think the discard for 3 coins is probably the best answer.
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Andy Van Zandt
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
my group is also in the "discard the card and get 3 coins" school of thought.
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
truekid wrote:
my group is also in the "discard the card and get 3 coins" school of thought.


same here.
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
Datharaur wrote:
I don't know if this is the best way, but in the past when we have had this problem, we have had the player discard the building and take three coins from the bank and treated it as if the player had discarded the card for money instead.

It is just as much that player's fault as it is for his neighbors not catching it (especially in a "teaching" game), so we try to be relatively forgiving to everyone. When we play 7 Wonders it is for the fun factor of sitting a bunch of friends around a big table and socializing, not so much the competitive nature of other games we have.


I have the person discard for coins as well.

The problem is what to do if the duplicate structure gives you resources or a pre-requisite and you use it/them to build one or more structures before the mistake was caught.

The card gets discarded for 3 coins. How about the other cards built with it? I guess you either let it slide or they all get discarded for coins. That would suck.
 
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Evan Stegman
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
supertopix wrote:
... Then, playing, I DID this mistake... and I noticed it while we were moving to the next hand. (same green structures) ...


Datharaur wrote:
I don't know if this is the best way, but in the past when we have had this problem ...


BlueJackal wrote:
... I made that mistake when I was learning the game, and another player caught my mistake and let me toss it for 3 coins - then he made the same mistake later in the game. ...


Avron wrote:
I had this happen in a recent game. ...


I also just had it happen in a game this weekend

The first time I played the game, my biggest concern was how easy it is to make a mistake slash cheat.

My experience has been that it has happened in more games I've played in than not.

I would fall on the side of toss the card and take three coins for a new player; lose the card with no compensation for an experienced player.

That only helps recover from the identical named buildings but the only way to prevent the other common mistake of bringing in something a player doesn't actually have the resources for is to watch for it as it happens. That is much tougher to detect a couple turns down the line and I've found some players are just not interested in putting in the effort it takes to double-check their neighbors.
 
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Tim Seitz
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
The rules say that if someone plays a card that is illegal or they cannot pay for, they must discard it for 3 coins. So in this case, you toss the card and get 3 coins.
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Michael J
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
This is the most common mistake I've seen made. No other mistake comes close. I've even made it myself. Part of the problem is that you are so focused on what is in your hand, you forget about what you played previously (this happens most when the picture on the card is covered up by a card above it). But probably a bigger part of the problem is the abstract nature of the game. It's easy to forget the names of the cards you played as they don't always relate to their uses in an intuitive way. Discarding the card for 3 coins solves the problem, and is harsh enough that it generally prevents the player from winning the game.
 
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Stefan Brunell
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
Like others here, we do the ''get the 3 coins''.
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Tim Seitz
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
I wasn't making a suggestion, it's explicitly stated in the rules (page 5).

7 Wonders rules wrote:
Note : if a player has chosen a card but is unable to build either the structure or the Wonder stage, that player is then forced to discard the card and takes 3 coins from the bank.
 
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Evan Stegman
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Re: How do you deal with possible errors?
out4blood wrote:
I wasn't making a suggestion, it's explicitly stated in the rules (page 5).

7 Wonders rules wrote:
Note : if a player has chosen a card but is unable to build either the structure or the Wonder stage, that player is then forced to discard the card and takes 3 coins from the bank.


That is about what to do if AT THE TIME THE CARD IS PLAYED during the Action phase the player cannot either bring any card into play or build a wonder.

It says nothing about what to do if it is discovered turns later in some other phase.

You may be able to infer it from that rule but it certainly isn't "explicitly" mentioning how to handle an illegally played card from a prior turn.
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out4blood wrote:
I wasn't making a suggestion, it's explicitly stated in the rules (page 5).

7 Wonders rules wrote:
Note : if a player has chosen a card but is unable to build either the structure or the Wonder stage, that player is then forced to discard the card and takes 3 coins from the bank.


We know that (at least, I know) but what I think the interesting point is, if you enforce it or when you enforce it (do you stick it to the newbies?). Furthermore, how about if you only find out a couple of rounds later and the structure has already been used to build other structures?
 
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Contigo
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The issue of having duplicate buildings of the same name is pretty easy to do, and fortunately the solution others keeps repeating is actually very nice. Discarding a card for 3 gold doesn't affect what others would do (with small exception to those searching through the discard pile), and it can't really help you.

I haven't come across anyone building things they weren't allowed to, mostly because we rarely check on what our neighbors are doing. It seems like that's less likely to cause mistakes, aside from (for example) trying to use east trading post to get discounts for trade with a western neighbor.

What I'm interested in is what do others do if you pay a neighbor for a good you didn't need (or paid them more than you should have)?
 
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Caleb
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I'd also allow discarding for 3 coins, regardless of how far down the path it was discovered. If the card was used for discounts or something in the meantime, I'd probably make the player forfeit any/all of the 3 coins to make up for the unearned discounts, but not in a teaching game.
 
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D P
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This is a good reason to pay close attention to what the people to your left and right are doing. I regularly confirm with my neighbours that they have enough resources to pay for what they want to do.

I've played the game about 6 times, with either 3 or 4 people. We were not paying attention to the "do not build the same building twice" rule, so we may have broken that one with the few duplicates in a 4 player game
 
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Charles Waterman
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Hmmmm...with the exception of raw materials cards there shouldn't be any putting cards on top of or under other cards. That might help avoid this.
 
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Caleb
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montebanc wrote:
Hmmmm...with the exception of raw materials cards there shouldn't be any putting cards on top of or under other cards. That might help avoid this.


Uh, depending on the size of the table you're playing at, you may be forced to stack cards, though they should always be offset in such a way that you can see the various stats of all the cards in the stack.
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The Broox
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montebanc wrote:
Hmmmm...with the exception of raw materials cards there shouldn't be any putting cards on top of or under other cards. That might help avoid this.


I would urge you to look at the example player area in the rulebook, located on page six (English rules).
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