Dale Prather
United States
Akron
Ohio
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For example, can the apothecary be used for the bane card?
How about alchemy cards with the saboteur?
Etc....
Thanks for the help.
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brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
Mourning the end of the Manning era.
Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.
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If it has a Potion in it, you can buy something with a potion in it. If it does not, it does not.
So if Saboteur attacks a 4-coin 1-potion card, you can buy up to a 2-coin 1-potion card. If it hits a 5-coin card, you can only buy up to a 3-coin card with no potions at all.
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JonnyRotten
United States
Montpelier
Ohio
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IIRC They cost just what they say. Xcoins and YPotions. Potions is part of the cost. So a bridge would reduce the price of a alchemy card by 2 coins, and 0 potions.
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Chris
United States
Austin
Texas
Glory to Rome!
"Let each man pass his days in that wherein his skill is greatest" Propertius Sextus
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dale12 wrote: For example, can the apothecary be used for the bane card?
How about alchemy cards with the saboteur?
Etc....
Thanks for the help.
This is covered in excruciating detail in the Alchemy rules. I won't cut and paste them because 1) they are long... did I mention excruciating detail. 2) Loads of potion/coin symbols make for bad cut/paste experience.
You can read them for yourself here: http://www.riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_356_gameRule...
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jgilmour wrote: So a bridge would reduce the price of a alchemy card by 1 coin, and 0 potions.
fyp
A bridge would reduce it by 1. It adds $1 for that turn as well, but if you were buying 2 cards, each is bought at -$1
Chris is right, there are VERY detailed rules, but the gist is: if a card refers to the cost of another card and that other card has a potion, keep counting that potion. Swindler can only turn the card to another one of the same cost + a potion. Sabatuer was already mentioned. Remake/Remodel/Upgrade/etc. trashes the card and can improve it to the cost + 1/2/1 and a potion (so say a Scrying Pool to an Alchemist), but it can't go from 2 and a potion to 3 (so no Scrying Pool to a Silver).
Hope that makes a bit of sense. Just keep counting the Potion cost and you should be all set.
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Jeff Wolfe
United States
Columbus
Ohio
Zendo fan, Columbus Blue Jackets fan, Dominion Fan. These are 'permanent microbadges' to free up space on my microbadge row
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dale12 wrote: For example, can the apothecary be used for the bane card?
No. It does not cost 2 Coins or 3 Coins. It costs 2 Coins + Potion.
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Mark Judd
United States
Mapleton
Utah
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jgilmour wrote: IIRC They cost just what they say. Xcoins and YPotions. Potions is part of the cost. So a Princess would reduce the price of an alchemy card by 2 coins, and 0 potions.
Fixed your post. Bridge reduces the cost of each card by 1 coin. Princess reduces the cost of each card by 2 coins.
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Mark Judd
United States
Mapleton
Utah
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sybrwookie wrote: jgilmour wrote: So a bridge would reduce the price of a alchemy card by 1 coin, and 0 potions. fyp A bridge would reduce it by 1. It adds $1 for that turn as well, but if you were buying 2 cards, each is bought at -$1 Chris is right, there are VERY detailed rules, but the gist is: if a card refers to the cost of another card and that other card has a potion, keep counting that potion. Swindler can only turn the card to another one of the same cost + a potion. Sabatuer was already mentioned. Remake/Remodel/Upgrade/etc. trashes the card and can improve it to the cost + 1/2/1 and a potion (so say a Scrying Pool to an Alchemist), but it can't go from 2 and a potion to 3 (so no Scrying Pool to a Silver). Hope that makes a bit of sense. Just keep counting the Potion cost and you should be all set.
Remake and Upgrade will not bump a Scrying Pool to a Silver as the cost must be exactly 1 coin more (if the trashed card has a potion, the gained card must also have a potion. However, you are incorrect in stating that Remodel cannot do that. The gained card from Remodel can cost UP TO 2 coin more. So (assuming no Bridge antics) a Remodeled Scrying Pool can become any card costing $0, $2, $3, $4, $0 P (potion), $2 P, $3 P, or $4 P.
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The coin cost and potion cost are separate (X coin, Y potion as mentioned by others already).
Here is a rundown of how different cards are affected by potions:
Workshop - You cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost.
Feast - You cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost.
Remodel - If the trashed card has a potion in the cost, you can gain another card with or without a potion in the cost. If the trashed card does not have a potion in the cost, you cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost.
Mine - Philosopher's Stones can be trashed and turned into any treasure costing up to $6 P (including other Philosopher's Stones). No other treasure can be trashed to gain a Philosopher's Stone.
Swindler - Already mentioned on this thread. The cost of the gained card must be identical - if the trashed card costs $3 P, the gained one must also cost $3 P and not just $3. Likewise, a $3 card cannot be replaced by a $3 P card.
Bridge - Not really affected by potions. If a card has a potion in the cost, that potion still remains with Bridge in play. A Transmute (cost P) will still cost the same (P) with Bridge in play.
Ironworks - You cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost.
Saboteur - Already touched on in this thread. You gain a card costing up to 2 less. If the trashed card has a potion in the cost, you can gain another card with or without a potion in the cost. If the trashed card does not have a potion in the cost, you cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost. Also, the trashed card must cost at least 3 coin, so a card costing $2 P will not be trashed.
Upgrade - Already mentioned in this thread (and in this post)
Smugglers - You cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost.
Salvager - You get + Coins equivalent to the coin cost of the trashed card. If a potion is in the cost, it is ignored. You do not get +P or +1 coin extra.
University - You cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost.
Apprentice - Affect of potions is already addressed on the card itself.
Bishop - Card specifies that you get VP equivalent to the cost in coins, so a potion in the cost would be ignored.
Quarry - Similar to Brige, not really affected by potions.
Talisman - You will not gain a duplicate card with a potion in the cost.
Expand - Similar to Remodel. If the trashed card includes a potion in the cost you can gain a card with or with a potion in the cost. If the trashed card does not include a potion in the cost, you cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost.
Forge - Card specifies the cost in coins. So any potions in the trashed cards costs are ignored. You cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost.
Princess - Similar to Bridge/Quarry, not really affected by potions.
Remake - Similar to Upgrade, already addressed in this thread (and post).
Horn of Plenty - You cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost.
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Dale Prather
United States
Akron
Ohio
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Mark, great post and thanks for the detailed explanation.
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Shane Loader
United States
Ft. Collins
Colorado
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I love Dominion but have played little Alchemy because of things like this.
I just picked up Alchemy & now I realize that you have to be careful with card sets using it because good cards like smuggler can become nearly worthless with potion cards in the mix.
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Thomas Brendel
United States
Dunwoody
Georgia
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In the interest of completeness, since Mark's post was pre-Hinterlands:
Border Village - The card gained cannot include potion in the cost, since $X+P is not less than $6.
Develop - Similar to Upgrade. If the card trashed includes potion in the cost, so must the cards gained. If it does not, they cannot.
Farmland - Also similar to Upgrade.
Haggler - If the card bought does not include potion in the cost, neither can the card gained. If the card bought does include potion in the cost, the card gained may or may not.
Highway - Similar to Bridge, not affected by potions.
Trader - Card specifies cost in coins, so potions are ignored.
EDIT
Almost forgot: Governor - Also similar to Upgrade.
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Mark Judd
United States
Mapleton
Utah
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Squidd wrote: In the interest of completeness, since Mark's post was pre-Hinterlands:
...
Actually, I did add the Hinterlands stuff in response to a question in the Hinterlands rules forum, but forgot to add the same stuff to this thread.
Doh!
Beaveman wrote: ...And here are the updates for more recent expansions/cards:
Develop - Similar to Upgrade. The cost of the gained cards must be exactly 1 coin more/less than the cost of the trashed card. If the trashed card has a potion, the gained cards must also have a potion. If the trashed card does not have a potion, the gained cards cannot have a potion.
Trader - Like Forge, this card also specifies the cost in coins. So any potions in the trashed cards costs are ignored and do not result in gaining additional Silver.
Haggler - At first glance, this might seem the same as all the others. But it is a little deceptive. A card that costs X coins and no potions DOES cost less than one costing X coins and a potion. So if the bought card has a potion in the cost, you can gain a card costing the same amount of coins and no potions, a card costing less coins and a potion, or a card costing less coins and no potions. If the bought card does not have a potion in the cost, you cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost.
Highway - Similar to Brige, not really affected by potions.
Border Village - This does not have a potion in the cost, so you cannot gain a card with a potion in the cost.
Farmland - Similar to Upgrade. The cost of the gained card must be exactly 2 coins more than the cost of the trashed card. If the trashed card has a potion, the gained card must also have a potion. If the trashed card does not have a potion, the gained card cannot have a potion.
Governor - Similar to Upgrade. The cost of the gained card must be exactly 2 coins more than the cost of the trashed card (or exactly 1 coin more for opponents). If the trashed card has a potion, the gained card must also have a potion. If the trashed card does not have a potion, the gained card cannot have a potion.
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/731763/border-village-and-al...
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Jeff Wolfe
United States
Columbus
Ohio
Zendo fan, Columbus Blue Jackets fan, Dominion Fan. These are 'permanent microbadges' to free up space on my microbadge row
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bonnyaclyde wrote: I love Dominion but have played little Alchemy because of things like this.
I just picked up Alchemy & now I realize that you have to be careful with card sets using it because good cards like smuggler can become nearly worthless with potion cards in the mix.
One of the things I like about Dominion is that the power of one card depends on what other cards are in the set. The Smugglers/Potion interaction is just an example of that. "It's a feature, not a bug."
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Dennison Milenkaya
United States
Washington
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jeffwolfe wrote: One of the things I like about Dominion is that the power of one card depends on what other cards are in the set. The Smugglers/Potion interaction is just an example of that. "It's a feature, not a bug."
Absolutely. Smugglers is stupidly good. It needs a chance to suck eggs. Totally should be only played in sets where lots of Alchemy cards are present. And Prosperity cards, which conveniently tend to be beyond the reach of Smugglers.
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Dale Prather
United States
Akron
Ohio
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jeffwolfe wrote: bonnyaclyde wrote: I love Dominion but have played little Alchemy because of things like this.
I just picked up Alchemy & now I realize that you have to be careful with card sets using it because good cards like smuggler can become nearly worthless with potion cards in the mix. One of the things I like about Dominion is that the power of one card depends on what other cards are in the set. The Smugglers/Potion interaction is just an example of that. "It's a feature, not a bug."
Exactly. Having never played Alchemy, I'm curious why in that situation the Smuggler is worthless. Could you explain?
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brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
Mourning the end of the Manning era.
Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.
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dale12 wrote: jeffwolfe wrote: bonnyaclyde wrote: I love Dominion but have played little Alchemy because of things like this.
I just picked up Alchemy & now I realize that you have to be careful with card sets using it because good cards like smuggler can become nearly worthless with potion cards in the mix. One of the things I like about Dominion is that the power of one card depends on what other cards are in the set. The Smugglers/Potion interaction is just an example of that. "It's a feature, not a bug." Exactly. Having never played Alchemy, I'm curious why in that situation the Smuggler is worthless. Could you explain?
Because if you have a lot of Alchemy cards, chances are that they have a potion in their cost. A potion is a specific "cost" you need to pay. So when it says gain a card up to 6-coin, you can't gain anything with a potion in its cost even if it costs no coin and only a potion.
The more cards you have with potion, the less likely to have cards without potion so the pool that you can smuggle is decreased quite a bit.
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