Fedor Syagin
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I am not the most experienced player, but have close to 10-11 games and plan to keep that number growing.

As with any game I plan to keep playing for a while I want to improve.

Recently I realize that I might be missing something about technologies in this game and would be very much interested to find out what other think about it.

The reason why I wanted to have this is discussion is simple. I too often see heavy tech races like Jol-Nar lose the game with all techs in the world and last game I seen Ghosts win with purchasing only one tech the whole game and that purchase was last round and didn't affect anything (he actually was forced to take teach card pretty much!

First let get obvious things out of the way - Main rule in this game - go for victory points!

So in the last game in mentioned there was no objectives in the game that were referring to the technologies.
Let's for a second assume none of those are coming up in the game.
So need to have color or number combinations for the victory points!

So let's say you are playing new Mindnet and you get your racial for free (yes extreme and unrealistic), and now have a choice of any tech you want? Which one actually should you take and when should you stop?
Fleet logistic and Lightwave or Type IV with Assault cannon? (A lot of options out there.)


What about regular players?
Which tech trees actually pay off and which one are under rated?

I will now point out the way I currently see some of the techs! Of course it's my own opinion and might be very much wrong. Also I do believe group of people you playing with influence thing a bit as well.

1.) XRD Transporters and Statis Capsules - again IMHO the most obvious beneficial techs that I always want to have in a game. One of the two at least! Obviously some races benefit from some of them more than the others.
2.) WarSuns - this one is interesting. PRO: Good firepower and mobility. With carrying capacity that just another way sometimes just to get troops somewhere with movement 2. CONS:Cost and in some groups big target you draw by having one and cost (yes I know i said it twice but it's just that bad .)
3.) Duranium Armor - Yes I know it's new, but I just have to say I am very impressed wit this tech, it is must have - absolutely not - but it has one amazing benefit - automatic victory in certain cases!
In game where bad rolls are sometimes are devastating - knowing that aside from direct hit you cannot lose your dreadnaught attacking this lonely destroyer/cruiser/dreadnaught. It might sound wastefull to use big ship this way - but when all you need sometimes is to clear way of blocking ship - certain victory is a lot! (Yes yes directo hit and some action card can mess you up.)
4.) Type IV drives - yes it's a long chain, but mobility is amazing thing to have. Now with extra bonus of adding your flagship!
5.) Nano Tech - potentially game breaking with planets coming untapped!
6.) Assault cannons - very good on paper and occasionally awesome. The more I play the more I believe they not worth the investment unless techs are cheap (certain laws.) Usually you just don't get enough drednaughts (only 5 you can ever have anyway.) Yes in combo with Mindnet flagship it can be devastating - but still not sure it's worth it!

Now here are some tech that I cannot really figure out myself.
They at the end of tree so long that I end up not investing into it that much usually. Do you people think they actually worth the investment and what you think about mentioned above techs as well.

Lightwave Deflector - Mobility sounds awesome - but does it really work out in the end to worth the investment? Do you end up being overextended or just not using it enough?

Fleet Logistics - Sounds awesome, but most of the time you trying to go last anyway. Yes I seen so many moment when I wish I had it, but I am not sure if it's worth long investment.

Hyper Metabolism - Excellent on paper, but assuming you getting it turn 3 and the game last until 10th - are those extra token and cards worth it? Same applies for Neural Motivator.

Ok. Again sorry for long post. But let me summarize main question again:
If you have a choice of anything( Aka mindnet) What would be your combo and when would you stop.

If you play other races - which tree you would rather focus on and which techs you believe are way overrated.







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Greycloak
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If you're playing on a preset map Gravity Drive is very powerful because of all of the wormholes. Ghosts gain even more of a benefit from it since they have Wormholes in their home systems.

Transit Diodes are great for Arborec, as are most of the Tech's leading up to it.

Nanotech early game is also very powerful.

It all depends on the race you're playing. With Winnu, getting Neural Motivator helps fuel their Biotpic Receptors. Sol with Hyper-Metabolism is a scary sight with a 4 CCs per status phase. Naalu can stock up on fighter boosting techs to enhance their already enhanced fighters.
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Shaun Murphy
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I agree with you in many cases that technologies are overrated. Players tend to always want to have techs, without thinking about whether they'll pay off over the course of the game.

However, in my opinion, there are some clear techs which almost always pay off for certain races. Here we go:

Hacan: Micro Technology
Mentak: Transfabrication (only with Mirror Computing)
Naalu: Cybernetics, Advanced Fighters
N'orr: War Sun, Duranium Armor
L1z1x: Assault Cannon, Duranium Armor
Saar: Nano Technology
Yin: Automated Defense Turrets, Gen Synthesis
Sol: Gen Synthesis, Hyper Metabolism
Xxcha: Deep Space Cannon
Letnev: Assault Cannon, Duranium Armor
Jol-Nar: Neural Computing
Muaat: Deep Space Cannon (for their War Sun improvement)
Arborec: Transit Diodes
Creuss: Gravity Drive
Winnu: Neural Motivator

I'm sure I forgot some obvious ones...

EDIT: Added Aaron's suggestions.
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Lucas Skinner
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Enviro Compensator and Sarween Tools.

I'm actually thinking of starting all my games with these two techs regardless of race.

Every time I stray and go heavy RED for the combat tree I regret the capacity shortcomings and the loss of resources assisting my builds. You'll use both of these tech a lot.

Hylar V Assault makes your cruisers, the best unit in the game in my opinion, even stronger so I always get this.

Cybernetics if I plan to own any decent fighter fleet. Think of how many dice get the +1. That will usually result in many additional hits.

All other techs to me are optional or situational.
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Derek Porter
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In my opinion, the only techs that are "necessary" to any of the races in the game are Enviro Compensator, Sarween Tools, Hylar V Assualt Laser, and either XRD Transports OR Stasis Capsules, depending on which works best for your race - Choose one & stick with it. Everything beyond this is icing on the cake, though if you have easy access to a wormhole or gravity well system, it's not bad to grab Gravity Drive. I know that there will be others that will argue this, but I've won most of my group's games with 5-7 techs at the end, depending on my race. I've seen more players race down the tech tree instead of getting VPs than I can count. The one player that consistently comes in second in our group always has to race to catch up after he realizes that I'm going to win... and he's never been able to get all the techs that he wants, even as the Jol-Nar.
I'll also say that War Suns are ridiculously overrated. I've only ever had the tech twice, and once was because I was playing the Muaat. War Suns are fun, yes, but they are by no means necessary to win.
Depending on which race you're playing, your racial tech(s) will probably be useful to you in some way, and some you'll want sooner than others. It's arguably better to get the Ember of Muaat's racial tech before you get anything else, for example.

I'll always argue that you only "need" to get the techs listed above. There's a lot of fun techs in the deeper recesses of the tree, yes, but I've yet to see anyone actually get Fleet Logistics or the X-89 Bacterial Weapon.
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Brian Petersen
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My last game L1z1x skipped to X-89, but never got the chance to use it, since he failed to win the space battle over the planet I had just taken from him. X-89 is good for 2 situations: against Arborec and Sol, and possibly the Jol-Nar would want it offensively, since they suck at invading.

Naalu also benefit greatly from Graviton Negator through the Green tree and may benefit from Fleet Logistics in TLW. Ancient Artifact did give 2 free techs that game, so that's how I got that deep while still winning. In a 10 VP game, they don't have time to use it more than once.

Sarween Tools and Neural Computing are fools gold in a high resource galaxy. In a low resource galaxy, they are useful, but otherwise, other techs can give you a less tangible but more beneficial perk. Jol-Nar might find Neural Computing useful as well, since that saves them 4 resources per round.

I disagree with Letnev. DN strategy is not what the 10 or 12 production HS screams. XRD, Enviro, and Cybernetics are the only techs they need.

In any game where one player is building more than a few fighters, Auto-Defense Turrets is a must. It's 1 or 2 tech selections that take your AFB from (20/80 or 30/70)x2 per destroyer to 50/50x3 per destroyer.

Yssaril should also get their new racial tech IMMEDIATELY. You're already annoying the hell out of players, you might as well take a card from them while you're at it, especially if it's something that could be used against you. Hyper Metabolism and Neural Motivator are also great for them since they get more ACs, but I wouldn't neglect my fleet or others to go after them.

War Suns are highly overrated. Often you don't have the resources to build a good escort the same turn that you build it, and it took you 2-5 tech selections to get only two of the units. Even as the Muatt, I wouldn't go heavy in the WS early game. If you don't have Nano-Tech, you might as well say "Blow up these 12 resources."

Nano Tech is necessary if you plan on going heavy DN or WS strategy. It's also quite powerful early game and late game, if you're conquering others. If you can't get Nano-Tech easily, don't go heavy DN or WS.

As for the L1z1x, they're new racial tech is a trap. The only ones worth skipping to are Type IV Drives and Lightwave Deflectors, and depending on the set-up, Nano Tech and XRD. Well before you get those two though, you should have Nano Tech, ADT, and Assault Cannons.

For the N'orr, they shouldn't be buying /many/ techs, but if they happen to keep getting stuff, XRD and Assault Cannon along with their pre-reqs are quite handy. Obviously they should get their Flagship out as soon as they have a good escort. Their strength is to build a ton of units that are hitting harder than everyone else's. I had trouble killing a lone N'orr Carrier with 6 units, since his hit on 8's and my 6 dice needed a 9.

Jol-Nar has a lot of options depending on the map set-up and how aggressive the other players are. If they have all the money in the world and players are co-operating, they should go Micro, Nano, then both Neurals, then all 3 greens to Hyper Metabolism. At that point, their tech decision is influenced by which units are already built.

When going PDS deep, always get Graviton Laser Sys before Magen Defense Grid. When going Sustain Damage deep, always go Nano before Duranium Armor. When going X-89, go Dacxive Animators first, and question if you should just get Graviton Negator instead.

Hyper Metabolism does pay for itself, but it's not worth it if you aren't also going to have fighters and/or GFs. An extra CC is 2 or 3 influence. They're seriously limited, and there are only a few planets that are pure influence.
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Henry Coleman
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As the OP alluded too, tech choices, at least if you are looking to win, should be dictated in the main by VP conditions. In fact this applies to how you play your race. Just because you are the L1Z1X it doesn’t mean you have to buy dreadnaughts to win, it just means that when you do need to buy them you have an advantage in both cost and attack value. When buying anything, be it a unit or a tech it should be with how it will help get VPs or stop opponents getting VPs. Buying no techs is a quite valid option if it doesn’t hinder your chances of winning, buying units or spending resources on objectives may be a more pressing matter.

That said if I was to pick just one tech you should try and get, gravity drives would fit the bill if the board layout is favourable. This tech is by far the most useful in terms of the flexibility it gives you in offence and defence.
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Fab Sanke
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I think that now Norr should avoid going Warsun, and focus more on lots of ships, plus DN with Duranium Armour. Getting tech to hit Fighters with Destroyers is also great.

A Norr fleet with Flagship, 2 DN and 2 Destroyers has same cost of Flagship + Warsun, but can kill more fighters and get more hits per turn.
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Fedor Syagin
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Thank for all of the replies.

Looks like it might be good idea to create separate topic called - mindnet - or what to do about new racial tech (So many opinions out there!)

Now I do understand why many people believe Warsuns to be overrated.
The main reason they get used in our group is bombardment!
I seen at least 3 games won by taking last point with artifact capture using warsun (sometimes double warsuns) and doing heavy bombardment to ease the invasion. In most of those cases without warsuns it won't be possible.
Yes indeed bacterial weapon is alternative but apparently it has more limitations.

With most of the fleets in our group having fleet supply of 4-5 - that double warsun fleet invading artifact planet are usually hard to stop.
Yes it's 24 resources. But you cannot put too many ships to defend that planet with only 5 fleet supply unless you just swarm fighters.
Situational - yes indeed.

Also so far in all the games we played I yet have to see warsun been destroyed with direct hit (2 reasons - not too many of those in the deck and people paranoid - usually take pds fire to warsun to direct hit won't apply.)
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garfielder wrote:
Also so far in all the games we played I yet have to see warsun been destroyed with direct hit (2 reasons - not too many of those in the deck and people paranoid - usually take pds fire to warsun to direct hit won't apply.)


Last game i played, my flagship was destroyed twice by two direct hits soblue
even more annoying when i was Letnev and it repairs every round too
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Stefan Sasse
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Yep, most people tend to overrate techs to a great degree and then being freightened by the amount of ships you're assembling.
For some additional thoughts on the topic, make sure to check out my Strategy Guide in the files section of the Base Game.
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Samuel C.
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Just something to consider that I saw in my last game. I was the Winnu and a political had passed making blues 3 cheaper. So I bought Gravity drive and all the way to Type IV Drive. My cruisers had 4 movement with Stasis Capsules! That's HUGE! It won me the game because I could come from the other side of the map to get an undefended homeworld for no cost, and win my secret objective.
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Biznits SnipSnap
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Agreed, most people really overestimate techs. I think of every race as having a "core" set of techs that play to their advantage and then a possible "extension" to the core if they can pick up more without trouble. For example, Winnu are the only race able to get to type 4 drive in three techs as the above poster discovered in their last game. My "core" techs for Winnu are Neural Motivator->Racial->XRD->Type 4 Drive. It only takes 4 techs and gives the Winnu it's signature recylers and a very versatile fleet. Possible extensions include Advanced Fighters and Cybernetics to beef up your fighers, Hylar Lasers for your cruisers, or Animators and Graviton Negator for invasion power. Fighter heavy races like Naalu will have a larger core while Letnev has almost nothing (though some very viable extensions with the expansion). This helps me get only what I'll need and plan it out so I don't get caught in the usual tech frenzy early on. N'orr for example can entirely ignore tech early and while everyone else blows 6 resources on tech they put out 6 destroyers that hit like cruisers. Putting the ships off for tech means you end up with your fleets hitting their stride right after the game ends Techs are good, especially for some races, but are usually overrated.
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