Andrew
Australia
Sydney
NSW
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Hi Awful Green Things,
I've just been reading the rules and wondering if someone could clarity the intent of some poorly written sentences.
Page 5
"Monsters may always leave an area containing crew or an Electric fence" (my emphasis)
The words may (=possiblity, or permission to do if you want to, or if you like) and always (at all times, on all occasions) should never be put together. This is really bad english. It is like saying you can do this if you like but you must do it no matter what.
So, is the rule, Monsters must always leave an area... in which case may should be replaced with must, or is it Monsters can leave an area if the player wishes... in which case drop the word always and just have Monsters may leave an area...
I was tending towards Monsters must always leave... as the intent but then on the next page I see "The Crew Player may move any or all of the crew each turn....They may always leave and area, no matter what is in it!" (my emphasis)
So this paragraph starts off by saying you can move any pieces if you like, but you don't necessarily have to, and then it contradicts itself and says that you have to always leave an area.
Cheers...
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Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
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andywhite wrote: Hi Awful Green Things,
I've just been reading the rules and wondering if someone could clarity the intent of some poorly written sentences.
Page 5
"Monsters may always leave an area containing crew or an Electric fence" (my emphasis)
The words may (=possiblity, or permission to do if you want to, or if you like) and always (at all times, on all occasions) should never be put together. This is really bad english. It is like saying you can do this if you like but you must do it no matter what.  It just meant that they are NOT "stuck there" due to the 'presence' of any immediate crew/electric fence within the same area, such as when surviving an ATTACK. You still follow everything ELSE in order, and conduct theirs during a TURN with this in mind. 
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John "Omega" Williams
United States
Michigan
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Its the allways part that kinda needs the removal... ahem.
Green things may leave an area with crew or fence. The robot on the other hand is a diffrent matter.
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Sim Guy
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
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Maybe "can always leave" would have been better. In effect, the monsters aren't prevented from leaving the area if crew or an electric fence is there.
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Interesting. My very first thread here on the Geek, written when I registered, revolved around language, and in particular the verb may.
In the rule sentences quoted here, though, it never so much as crossed my mind that the always would express necessity or obligation. But that, of course, may just be because English isn't my native tongue.  I only read it as a modifier to the verb (the actually written one, not some completely different verb arbitrarily substituted for it). That is, the possibility/permission expressed by the may is always there. Can't you say that in good English?
In any case, I checked the original version of the game (a PDF of Dragon Magazine #28), and these sentences, if they're as abysmal as you say they are, are probably both to be blamed on Tom Wham himself - along with the editors of TSR and SJG, of course, as they should have had ample opportunity over the 32 years and 8 editions since then to change them.
As for the intended meaning, you'll find the rule for monsters at an Electric Fence again on page 7, still with the may but this time without any always, which should settle it.
SJG - in the 8th ed. rules, on page 7 - wrote: Monsters must stop when entering an area with an active Fence. Unlike other weapons, the Fence takes effect on the Monster Player’s turn. Resolve its effect after monster movement is complete, but before any attacks are resolved. Any surviving monsters may leave the area on their next turn.
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John "Omega" Williams
United States
Michigan
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Correct. Thats how its supposed to be read. But depending on native language and or how literal (or rules lawyer) minded one is, it can cause some mild confusion.
As for why its still there... No one in editing has apparently ever thought it an issue. Well that and on a whole (US) gamers were a bit more intelligent back then... ahem...
Still, the allways bit could be deleted in the next edition. Whenever that is. Leave a note with SJG and hope someone reads it in 5 or so years or however long it takes them to do the next reprint.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
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Marlin wrote: In the rule sentences quoted here, though, it never so much as crossed my mind that the always would express necessity or obligation.
I am a native English speaker, and it doesn't express necessity or obligation to me either. It is a time qualifier, in this instance telling you when you may do something.
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Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
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I read the "always" as emphasising that there are no circumstances that would negate the permission - "it is always true that monsters may move away from electric fences or crew members"
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