Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
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I've recently set up HEADS OF STATE on our main gaming table so what are the odds of us getting the change to play this game aswell.
Still I could not resist and set it up in my little nook of the house and try and learn it.
I've got the Dutch version so maybe something got lost in translation.
So, first question.
Entrenchements, I've read all about the entrenchments and how only the troops that are present while building one are actually in a fort etc.
As soon as they leave the area the entrenchment is also gone.
Okay, so I'm now imagining there is a battle for an entrenched place.
In my re-enforcement phase I decide to bring in more troops.
Now logically this would mean, according to the above rule, these troops are outside the re-enforcement.
[Unless ofcourse it's a permenantly entrenched place in which case I'd expect them to become automatically entrenched]
So how does this play out in the battle.
I now have two kind of troops, some that benefit from being entrenched and some that do not?
That's bound to get a bit confusing.
Question two and this is about retreat.
My rules say you can not withdraw your army to an enemy occupied space or to an enemy recruitment area.
You should preferably withdraw to a friendly space. sounds logical.
But [and now it gets complicated] if you do not have this option, you may withdraw to an enemy field.
????
So as I understand this, and assuming I am the South, does this mean that I can withdraw to a bleu collourd space [provided it's not a recruitment area, or filled with enemy forces]?
I mean, what else can enemy space in this context mean.
Must I assume that any bleu space is to be considered an enemy space?
I recall I asked about this next thing a long time ago, but is there a historical reason why Evansville [blue] is a confederate recruitment space and Knoxville a union recruitment space?
Or is the only reason gameplay.
I guess I could google it and try and find out, but I won't spoil a chance for any of you to show off your expertise on the subject.
I've set up the 'play the whole war' setup, with all the militia units.
Now looking at the map, keeping in mind the union is going to start the game, I wonder, what is to stop the Union from crossing the Potomac and using two milita to charge into Fredericksburg.
I know there are three militia, but you'd obviously want to keep a unit back to defend Washington and probably move the unit in Harpers Ferry into Washington for extra protection.
So what's stopping he north.
Frederickburg seems like a nice price and any unit there would treaten Richmond, which at this point in the game is still unoccupied.
Or makes the 'attack accross a river this such a perilous attack that succes is doubtfull.?
I don't think the confederates in Front Royal and Manassas are such a treat you should fear for losing Washington.
So what is to keep the north from a quick dash for Richmond?
Promotion, my rules say that you can promote one of your troops after you win a battle, logical, I assume this is one of the units that took part in the battle.
It also says you can promote a unit anywhere in the promotion phase.
Does this mean that I get to promote one extra unit if I've won a battle. And does it mean I get to promote one unit somewhere even if I've not won a battle?
One final thing I wondered about concerns maximum army size.
In my practise game it says the union has a maximum size of 34.
Now does this mean the north can have 34 units? or does it mean that I add the strengths of the units and these may amount to 34 in total.
I hope my qestions are not to silly, but remember I have the Dutch rules and something may have been lost in translation.
Hope you can help.
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Brad Miller
United States
Seattle
Washington
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Yes, you will have two "kinds" of troops in the battle. You need to keep track.
Not sure on some of the others.
Promotion: Yes, if you win, you get to promote one surviving unit. Then in the promotion phase, you can promote one unit anywhere.
Pretty sure you just count your units, not add them up.
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Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
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The response to my questions is a bit disappointing, as I understood this to be a popular game. I figured the experts would be standing in line to tell me I was doing everything wrong.
Anyway, I've started my practise game.
As predicted the north was quick to take Fredericksburg on the first turn and the south of course than moved all the units in the area and build an army at Richmond.
Now at moment the south is one step ahead, building its army at Richmond. The north is trying to build a larger army at Fredericksburg, but re-enforcements have to come from Washington.
And I wonder if I'm playing this as should, hm.. I fear the worst.
Can the troops from Washington, cross the river, join the force at Fredericksburg and than join in an attack that same turn provided there are enough marches.
?
I sort of think they can and I'm playing that bit wrong. But if they can that probably means the end of the game.
Is that all there is to a game? North takes Fredericksburg the first turn, builds an army and than takes Richmond in some turn after that.
Surely it can not be that easy, or it would indeed be a short game.
There must be some rule I'm missing.
Looking where the Confederates are right now, it seems like a hopeless situation from the start anyway.
The only army of importance is in Richmond and that's bound to be out numbered soon, depending on the luck of the dice.
There's a unit actually in Kansas City harassing the troops in the west, but I fear that one soon will find a bloody end. That expedition is sure to end in tears.
I'm occupying a number of harbours, quickly took Pensacola for fear of troops being moved there and I've fortified Atlanta, allthough I have a feeling that won't do me much good either.
I'm sure I'm playing the re-enforcement bit wrong [but it's a practise game so it can not all go perfect at the first attempt]
I forgot to put the militia cav. into the recruitment pool.
And in my book it says the north has 12 spare militia units, which it can not use right now.
I suddenly realised my rule book fails to mention when the north CAN use these units and I'm starting to suspect it can use them from the start of the game, they're just not placed on the map right at the beginning.
It's a weird little game this.
Playing the confederate side you get this feeling from the start that your cause must be doomed.
There is so much terrain to defend and so few units to do it with.
You must hold Richmond or lose and you get very few re-enforcements, which you than immedeatly must commit to Richmond.
It makes you feel utterly depressed and in October 1861, I'm allready starting to wonder how the south ever managed to keep going for four years. Looking at this gameboard it seems neigh impossible.
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Patrick Carroll
United States
Carver
Minnesota
"If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly." (GK Chesterton)
"That's how the light gets in." (Leonard Cohen)
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sagitar wrote: The response to my questions is a bit disappointing, as I understood this to be a popular game. I figured the experts would be standing in line to tell me I was doing everything wrong.
The experts in the USA just got off work an hour or two ago. Give 'em time.
I'm no expert, but I'll say this: wargamers have been playing this game for thirty years, and the consensus seems to be that the Confederates have an advantage in the early part of the game, but the Union soon takes the lead.
If there were any quick-and-easy Union wins, such as you're describing, I think someone would have discovered them by now.
That said, the starting setup has been changed once or twice as the rules have been revised over the years. The most recent one, I think, is that the Union unit that used to start in Fort Monroe now starts in New York (and that's to prevent an early attack on Richmond).
It's not convenient for me to set up a board right now and follow along with your game. But in one or two of the games I played, I set out to capture Richmond early--and failed. The fort made the defense too strong. IIRC, I had to retreat before I lost my whole army and gave the Confederates a chance to attack Washington.
The proximity of the two capitals to each other makes the game interesting: it's very tempting to try to grab the enemy capital early, but it's a big gamble. Fail, and you may lose your own capital very quickly; you'll have nothing to defend it with. And some of the enemy units will be promoted in the process.
Both players are likely to stack up a lot of units in and around their capitals, but it's possible to defend them. A quick win is possible, but I don't think it's likely enough to happen often.
Btw, this is historically accurate. In 1861, the armies clashed outside Washington DC, on the battlefield of Manassas (Bull Run). The Union army hoped to send the Confederates running, then march down to Richmond and win the war. The Confederates actually won the battle, but they wore themselves out and were unable to march into Washington. So, yeah, the first thing that happened in the war was that each side tried to make a quick grab for the other's capital.
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Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
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Hi Patrick,
The time difference can be a bit confusing, but I reckoned if I stayed up late, it must be around the time you all were in full swing.
So as I now get up, I reckon you're all ready for bed?
Anyway, actually when the north marched on Fredericksburg that was just what came to mind, how that was how the action started in that area, just as you describe.
I'm not withoutknowledge on the topic, for some weird reason it has allways fascinated me. Even managed to visit some of the battle fields.
In a way I like it that the game allready gives me this feeling of utter hopelesness. I can just imagine that was how the confederate generals must have felt at the time.
It sure gives you a feel of historical accuracy.
Do the expert rules make it even better or am I better to stick with the base rules.
I find it somewhat disturbing that you mention the oft times revised rules. Really? you guys have been playing this game for 30 years? I didn't realise it was that old.
On BGG it shows the game under different names, but I figured that was only because it exists in differt languages.
In my start 'play the whole war' there is no starting unit in Ft Monroe.
It is up for grabs and that made me wonder, seems a bit odd as it's fortified and all, so a nice place to stick an army.
But with the south occupied trying to build up Richmond, northern me quickly got a unit in there, treatening to march on Yorktown and re-enforce the attack on Richmond.
It was a coincedance I ran into this game, I mean a game on the ACW over here and in Dutch? It's not a game you'd expect in the shops.
But sofar I'm starting to like it ever more.
Thanks for you comments and fingers crossed someone finds this thread who can answer all the questions.
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Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
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sagitar wrote: And in my book it says the north has 12 spare militia units, which it can not use right now.
I suddenly realised my rule book fails to mention when the north CAN use these units and I'm starting to suspect it can use them from the start of the game, they're just not placed on the map right at the beginning.
Union gets to add 4 Militia into its force pool each April, so it can have 16 Militia in April '62, 20 in '63 and finally 24 in April '64.
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Bob Blanchett
Australia
Clifton Hill
Victoria
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Hi Sagitar,
1. Entrenched units.. you are correct. Reinforcing units are unentrenched as are any units in the main stack which have not expended a mmarch to entrench (in cities without intrinsic fortifications)
2. The extra union militia are "drafts" added in blocks of 4 to the union force pool in longer scenarios.
3. An army maximum is the total value of controlled friendly recruitment cities.
This value is the maximum number of units (not the total of their strength) you can have on table, ie you cannot deploy new units until your on board units drop below your army max.
4. The single militia Cav unit in each force pool will be your most worn out counter in the game.. its the key to winning with the Rebs.
5. Each battle you win permits one unit in that stack to be promoted.
Win 3 battles, promote 3 units, one in each of 3 stacks.
Note this does not apply if your enemy was all cavalry and took the option to retreat before combat.
Then, in the promotion phase promote one additional unit anywhere.
6. Retreat is only possible to any friendly occupied or friendly controlled(flagged) city or to an empty city of your home colour.
Not having a map in front of me, from memory some cities have two recruiting values.. the cities color is key here in the case where its uncontrolled:
If its blue its a retreat option for the feds, red for the Rebs. If its white(some TB/KY cities) it is uncommitted and can't be retreated to by either.
Remember, cavalry alone can never leave a control/flag marker behind as infantry do; they only control what they occupy
Cheers and enjoy AHD, it's a gem
Bob
Ps naval invasions are rare beasts in games I've played.. for me, as either side if they happen they happen. I don't build a strategy or hang the game on one happening!
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Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
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Thanks Rauli,
So there's on thing I did wrong, still never mind, mistakes made while learning the game are not likely to be repeated in the real game.
I understand there are several different versions of the rules, so can you tell me what page that rule is on?
So I can check if my rule book is faulty or if I've simply missed that.
I also find the recruitment shields confusing.
I've I understood it correctly every time you lose a place of recruitmant your army size goes down that number or up if you conquer one.
So there are a few shield of one army on a field the colour of the other army, so can I assume you only consider that one lost as soon as your enemy places a unit on it?
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Patrick Carroll
United States
Carver
Minnesota
"If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly." (GK Chesterton)
"That's how the light gets in." (Leonard Cohen)
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sagitar wrote: I find it somewhat disturbing that you mention the oft times revised rules. Really? you guys have been playing this game for 30 years? I didn't realise it was that old.
Read all about it on this Web site.
While Frank Chadwick designed the game, Alan Emrich has put a lot of work into developing it over the years.
I recently bought copies of the first and second editions to go with my third-edition copy. I just wanted to see what they all looked like.
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Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
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gurubob wrote: Hi Sagitar,
1. Entrenched units.. you are correct. Reinforcing units are unentrenched as are any units in the main stack which have not expended a mmarch to entrench (in cities without intrinsic fortifications)
Well at least I got that bit right.
Quote:
2. The extra union militia are "drafts" added in blocks of 4 to the union force pool in longer scenarios.
I understand from Rauli this is the same in every game, but it depends on the scenario? So what does that mean for my basic 'play the whole war' game?
Quote:
3. An army maximum is the total value of controlled friendly recruitment cities.
This value is the maximum number of units (not the total of their strength) you can have on table, ie you cannot deploy new units until your on board units drop below your army max.
Now that seems complicated, but re-reading it twice I figured it out and it's another thing I did wrong. So when I throw the dice for re-enforcement, I first had to check the army maximum to see if I'm in title to any. Not simply add them if they are available as I did.
Quote:
4. The single militia Cav unit in each force pool will be your most worn out counter in the game.. its the key to winning with the Rebs.
Haha good to know the rebs can win. Looking at the game from the start it didn't hit me as possible and even at this point having played so many turns incorrectly it seems unlikely.
the early attack on Richmond by the union ended with them getting a bloody nose retreating to Washington. But there is still a considerable force at Fort Monroe.
In the west I have a considerable army in Memphis, but the nort has Island no 10 and building an ever larger fore.
To make matters even worse my cav defeated union cav. wich than fled into Vicksburg. Hm I was sure I had a unit there, wonder where that went.
In the center I didn't have much luck either and lost Atlanta, allthough I've managed to defend Augusta and the army there is growning.
Quote:
5. Each battle you win permits one unit in that stack to be promoted.
Win 3 battles, promote 3 units, one in each of 3 stacks.
Note this does not apply if your enemy was all cavalry and took the option to retreat before combat.
Then, in the promotion phase promote one additional unit anywhere.
Oops, so I shouldn't have promoted my cav.
not that there was much reason anyway as I chased it into Vicksburg.
So.... should the union cav. have fled as soon as I made it clear I was going to clobber them, rather than wait for my first throw of the dice and skidaddle when that throw turned out bad for them?
As they waited to be fired upon I wonder if my troop is not in title to the promotion after all.
Quote:
6. Retreat is only possible to any friendly occupied or friendly controlled(flagged) city or to an empty city of your home colour.
Not having a map in front of me, from memory some cities have two recruiting values.. the cities color is key here in the case where its uncontrolled:
If its blue its a retreat option for the feds, red for the Rebs. If its white(some TB/KY cities) it is uncommitted and can't be retreated to by either.
Remember, cavalry alone can never leave a control/flag marker behind as infantry do; they only control what they occupy
So is it an error in my book which clearly gives the option for a unit to retreat to an enemy hex?
I've got the Dutch, phalanx rules, so maybe they made an error in the translation.
In my mind it allready seemed like a contradition.
Quote:
Cheers and enjoy AHD, it's a gem
It really is, even playing alone trying to learn this, I'm allready having heaps of fun.
Quote:
Bob
Ps naval invasions are rare beasts in games I've played.. for me, as either side if they happen they happen. I don't build a strategy or hang the game on one happening!
As I recall it requires you to throw a six, hm must re-read this bit, as I now wonder if it means you use the whole six for the invasion or if you use only one march for this 'beach party'/
Thanks Bob, I appreciate your help
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john f stup
United States
damascus
Maryland
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RETREATS- 1.friendly area;2cd choice. neutral area; 3rd choice. enemy area but not an enemy recruiting area. these are by priority and the 2cd and 3rd choices are only if you cannot satisfy the previous choice/s. this was in previous errata to the 1st ED in a wargame publication called Strategist
ENTRENCHED UNITS--the benefit applies to the enemy attacker dice rolls of a -1. they don't affect the defender rolls. and the attacker must attack every defending with at least 1 attacking unit and he fires with a -1 only against units that are entrenched. any extra attacking unit/s can fire at whoever they choose. if the attacker has less units than the defender,then he can pick who he fires at whether entrenched or not but he can't gang up on any units(only 1 attacker per defender).
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Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
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So I am right in assuming an enemy field wich to retreat to is indeed a field of the oposit color. [recruitment and occupied fields excluded]
So the attacker MUST concentrate his attack on entrenched units first and can only go for the non entrenched if he's got units to spare?
So what happens if say the defender has 4 units entrenched + 1 and the attacker has 9.
The first 4 units MUST attack the entrenched units and the other 5 units can go for any unit they like?
So does this mean they could actually ignore the unit that is outside the fort? As this is the obvious soft target I reckon this would be the obvious choise for some extra attention, but you say there is a 'no ganging up rule?
So what are the definate rules for this game,
I understand there's several revised rules, so which ones am I suposed to follow.
In the mean time I've cleared the board, seeing I've made so many mistakes I felt I had to try again.
Especially made a mess of the maximum army size.
I wasn't all that great on the bookkeeping anyway and simply kept pooring in re-enforcements when available, not taking any notice of maximum army size.
Suffice to say the south ended up with much more than they should have and it makes it seem even unlikely they can ever win, not with this maximum army size which will mean a lot less re-enforcements than I've just given them.
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Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
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At least in my Phalanx version of the game (so that's what, 3rd edition?), extra 4 Union Militia (aka Draft) is mentioned in the Basic Rules. Rule 8.0 upon checking.
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Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
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Thanks Rauli,
You are right.
I was not doubting you were, but just wanted to make sure my rulebook was okay.
Seems in my enthousiasm I've been reading certain parts to quickly and for some reason my brain never noticed the lines beneather the bit about the 12 militia.
I think I blew a fuse....
Weird that, sometimes you can read a section several times and you still can't find the bit your looking for, only to find out it's been there, right in front of you, all the time.
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Pete Gelman
United States
Portland
Oregon
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Hi Freddy,
Quote: In a way I like it that the game allready gives me this feeling of utter hopelesness. I can just imagine that was how the confederate generals must have felt at the time.
I humbly suggest that Confederates can cause quite a bit of trouble for the Union by aggressive cavalry raids.
Since cavalry can jump a stack of infantry without cavalry, it can be quite a challenge to the Union to keep the Rebs bottled up. Confederate cavalry raids behind can hurt Union resources. There are a few locations where they can even allow the Rebs to increase their recruiting. It can take the Union a lot of time and resource to vanquish the raiders.
I think the Union can bottle up the Rebels, vanquish raiders, and mount an offensive. But by then, the time is almost out. I have lost many games as the Union that way.
It was the Union feeling the hopelessness!
But it is delicious, agonizing, fun gamer hopelessness. Enjoy the game!
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Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
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Thanks Pete,
Well I've allways had a pro southern feeling where this period is concerned and looking at the map, you really feel like there is nothing much you can do.
There's not a lot of troops comming in{even less when you play it correctly} and you MUST hold Richmond wich sort of steals your freedom to move or do stuff anywhere else.
Most resources simply MUST go to Richmond.
In my solo practise game I went and tried for a quick northern victory,which come to think of it was sort of historically correct, as was the outcome for that matter.
The northern troops got badly beaten, and returned to Washington from where they simply refused to move.
The south camped back in Richmond unable to move out and try something.
Afterall in my game there was a union force at Fort Monroe making that option even less attractive.
At that point I finaly felt confident enough to go and build armies elsewhere.But of course the northern build up is much quicker and the decreas of the maximum army size makes matters even worse.
The MUST HOLD locations are not good for southern mobility and mobility is exactly what it needs to keep the few troops it has.
After my faulty first attempt I feel that these MUST HOLD locations are sucking all the southern troops into these places, which, with the far quicker northern build up of troops, than over time turn into deadly traps.
Cavelry I've sofar only used to harras the northern cav. At least that seems like a battle you can win.
I'm not sure about jumping stacks of infantry-another rule I missed- as that would mean you're to close for comfort to said stack and they might attack you next time. Having said that, I seem to recall cav. can retreat before a battle and hm... yeah I can say how you could get really on the union nerves and have him waste troops on a cat and mouse game.
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john f stup
United States
damascus
Maryland
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if the defender has 3 units and only 1 of them is entrenched and the attacker has 2 units, then the attacker is allowed to attack the non entrenched units 1st if he so chooses.
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