James Clarke
United Kingdom
Caithness
Scotland
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I am wondering whether experienced players (which I am not) could enlighten me on the significance of Phase 1 (Draw Demand Tiles).
I completely understand that demand tiles need to be drawn out of a bag to randomly determine the demand for certain car types. Unfortunately, I don't see why these tiles are not just all simultaneously drawn and revealed in Phase 7. I have found that knowing (say) 25% of the demand tiles in Phase 1, is not particularly useful in guiding my decisions in the phases which follow.
In other words, if I, for example, draw a 4 and a 3 in the 2nd round, what positive information does that give me about the all important total demand? Is it not the case that my sample of two tiles, is too small to be of any value?
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David F
United States
Emeryville
California
Set up a lot of the PBF framework for BSG, Runewars, Small World, The Devil's Castle. PBF in Gears of War, Death Angel, A Game of Thrones. Currently playing Twilight Struggle, Middle-Earth Quest and Eclipse on Vassal.
I'm anal about using the right terms to describe games and have posted an alternative glossary to the inconsistent sprawl in BGG's database and lexicon that is clear, accurate and simple. I care big time about my reviews, ratings and comments.
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It might not be of much value, but it is of value. Would you rather play without demand tiles for yourself whereas your opponents do?
I think the point of it was theme, plus it gives a blackjack-like feeling. I have no problems with it, though the demand tiles seem to be #1 reason for those who don't like this game.
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Nathan Morse
United States
Powell
Ohio
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Yes, this is the core of the game: Wild speculation about demand, based on your small, inadequate knowledge of the market.
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Ken Dilloo
United States
Washington
Always bet on Chorizo!
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Yes, you are right, in a way. Drawing a 3 or a 4 is not very informative, but drawing a 2 or 5 is. Being able to produce and sell 1 or 2 more cars; or not taking losses on a few cars could have a huge impact on the rest of the game and that round. Having that wee bit of information can help you get a jump on the competition, and we all know we cannot let the competition get ahead.
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Harold Coleman
United States
Austin
Texas
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The statistics are in this spreadsheet:
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/57222/automobile-average-d...
The expected demand is different depending on what you draw compared to drawing no tile(s).
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Randall Bart
United States
Granada Hills
California
Red October
Earth is one of my favorite planets
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Highland Cow wrote: I have found that knowing (say) 25% of the demand tiles in Phase 1, is not particularly useful in guiding my decisions in the phases which follow.
It's a really neat game mechanic that's not particularly useful.
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Huzonfirst
United States
Manassas
Virginia
San Antonio, OKC, Miami, and Boston..who will win out?
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zefquaavius wrote: Yes, this is the core of the game: Wild speculation about demand, based on your small, inadequate knowledge of the market.
See, "wild speculation" isn't even close to being accurate. Most of the demands are determined by adding up the higher (or lower) tiles and that, plus the small number of total tiles, means that demand usually falls within a pretty narrow range. It's not hard to estimate, and the knowledge of your own tiles provides you with a small adjustment. I think the system works very well. The small amount of foreknowledge isn't that significant, but a little knowledge is better than none. It also makes the demand process feel more participatory, which is a nicely subtle touch.
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Nathan Morse
United States
Powell
Ohio
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Fair enough. …but it's the suspense of seeing how (in)accurate your market speculations and maneuvering will be that really put the zing in the game. Sure, statistically, X economy cars should sell, and you've set up discounts and all that, in order to push your cars off the lot first… only to find out that this round, the odds were beaten, and everyone sold all their units, with customers left wanting. :shrug: I really enjoy it, and that uncertainty makes me enjoy it all the more.
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James Clarke
United Kingdom
Caithness
Scotland
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Thank you all for the informative and most interesting responses. I agree that Phase 1 is a rather nice mechanic, and we like it just the way it is. We were just worried that we were missing out on some remarkable advantages. Apparently not, judging from the replies.
In my simplistic view, please picture the 2nd round of a 4 player game. Before any tiles are drawn, I believe that the possible demand ranges are 10-20 (High Demand Cars) and 8-18 (Low Demand Cars).
If I should draw the extreme tiles 5&5, these two ranges narrow slightly to 12-19 and 11-18 (High & Low respectively). Or if I should draw the opposite extreme tiles 2&2, the ranges narrow to 10-17 and 9-16 (High & Low respectively). Although I have not considered the probabilities of the outcomes, these ranges do seem to suggest that your own tiles hardly make more than a point of a difference. Surely this is not enough to base your own production strategy around.
But it is still a nice mechanic, and it gives at least a sense that you are influencing the demand outcome.
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Ken Dilloo
United States
Washington
Always bet on Chorizo!
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Right, because having one more resource, or a few more $, never really helps that much in Euro games.
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Stephen Leung
Hong-Kong
Kowloon
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The demand tiles can be useful when you are selling cars with Howard, distributors and making executive decisions.
Example for 3 players: when you draw 5&4, you then know that even with the worst case, the low demand cars still has 4+2+2=8. When you find out that the supply of low demand cars is few (let's say there is 13 only), count the number of distributors and you will find out with 5 distributors selling low demand cars (need not care who owns the distributors), your cars will sold out. If that is not enough distributors, then you have to consider making executive decisions. (Doing nothing also is an executive decision----meaning you are confident with the market demand)
In fact, by the tiles you draw, the character of your opponents and the number of cars they produced, you will have a better understanding of what tiles they hold.
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Dvd Avins
United States
Kendall Park
New Jersey
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I suppose in a 3 player game, if your high tile is a 2 or your low tile is a 5, the information you have is starting to get rather significant. In a way, though, it just makes the mechanic more of a problem that most of the time it's nearly meaningless, but occasionally one (and presumably only one) player does have good information.
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Posted Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:33 pm
