Sandy Petersen
United States
Rockwall
Texas
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I see several threads in Rules in which people basically complain about the fact that some villain in their game got a token "engine" running, in which the villain would plop down blackmail on the General/Captain, force on the Innkeeper/Magistrate (thus locking those down), and blow his 8 coins on controlling the Aristocrat/Merchant, and sometimes somewhere else.
The game I am about to describe features this "engine". All players except me and my daughter-in-law .were new to the game. My daughter-in-law had played it once before, and loved it immediately. She is not, repeat NOT a hardcore gamer. I am pretty hardcore, but when I play with family I lighten up and don't care about winning, particularly when it's the other people's first time. Instead I just help them along.
Well one of the players was an old-time gamer (though new to Revolution) and quickly figured out the "token engine" I described in the first paragraph of this session, and then for like 6 turns in a row had 7-12 tokens to play with, powerhousing his way to (he thought) victory. He didn't always get 12 tokens, because he was sometimes outbid on the Aristocrat/Merchant, or tried to fool the other players by putting down tokens elsewhere, like the Mercenary.
The two other players were in despair, but I cheerleaded them to play on. Now, be it understood that everyone was new and no one was a skilled player. I'd played more than anyone else, but I wasn't really trying to win - just make sure the others had fun.
What happened? The powerhouse player with all the tokens quickly filled up the Fortress, Harbor, Tavern, and Town Hall with cubes (not all his, because before he got his "engine" running other people had dropped a few in those slots). The most obvious result of this was that each turn following, he was spending 2 force and 2 blackmail on what amounted to 6 Support, because he wasn't placing Influence any more, and his tokens always got placed on the top row, so never went anywhere else. This is actually a pretty poor return for such valuable tokens.
Also, he lost the spy and apothecary every turn, so his "edge" in his four areas kept diminishing. The game kept on going for a while after he'd filled his areas, because no one had bid on the Priest for like the first 5 turns (a tendency I've noted among my extended family, possibly because as Mormons we disapprove of a paid ministry). And of course, each time someone won the priest, with maybe 2 gold or whatever, that person scored just as much Support as the powerhouse player was winning with all his mighty tokens. The end result was that the so-called powerhouse saw his control over three of "his" buildings vanish to spies and drugs, never won the Newspaper or the Priest, and came in next-to-last. I came in last, but I'm going to attribute this to helping the other two players with hints, rather than to my incompetence.
So if you are one of those poor folk who saw someone win big with a token engine, don't give up hope. Even a team of inept n00bs such as ourselves managed to conquer.
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Andrew Walters
United States
Hercules
California
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A lot of games, a *lot* of games, depend on doing things other people aren't doing. That's why a lot of good euros are very different with three players versus four. Revolution! "engines", of which I would argue that there are several two, three, and four element cycles which work great if people leave you alone, but leaving someone alone is not the spirit of the game.
My family played Kingdom of Solomon (same designer) a couple times before we figured out that it's similar to Revolution! in that it is very much a step-on-toes game. You can't compete side by side, you need to pull the rug out from other people and make it work for you every turn.
I think the most important phase of Revolution! is the Espionage phase. Your bids should be more dependent on what other people have, where you can't lose and where you can make them lose, than on your other plans and desires.
I haven't tried Revolution! The Palace yet, but I can't wait.
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Brenton Haerr
United States
California
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"as Mormons we disapprove of a paid ministry"
Ha ha, this is silly. It probably makes playing blue harder in Citadels :-)
But that was a good game post! Thank you for sharing. This made me actually want to check out this game.
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Philip duBarry
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
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Thanks for sharing!
Andrew, thanks for playing KoS! It is ironic that I've designed two games with a "step-on-toes" aspect, since I really dislike those brutal, "take that" kind of games. I see my games as incorporating the stepping-on-toes in a more subtle or indirect way.
BTW--you HAVE to try the Palace. I never play without it anymore, even with new people. Just sayin'. 
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Jake Hermance
United States
Arlington
Texas
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Love the palace too... Excellent expansion.
As far as 'engines' go.. there are a few, but each one has a way to stop it if you are paying attention to what others are doing. Well designed and keeps you thinking on every turn, trying to out think your opponents.
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Andrew Walters
United States
Hercules
California
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I don't equate step-on-toes with take-that at all. Take-that is simplistic, direct. Step-on-toes is indirect, subtler. Take-that is just knocking others down, trying to advance yourself, whoever draws the best cards or rolls the best rolls wins. Step-on-toes is trying to edge the other guy out, so that no matter what they do next they have lost ground, and you've secured your position; you are much more the master of your fate.
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Rick Carnagey
United States
Wake Forest
North Carolina
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I think The Palace expansion does away with the run away leader with all the extra spaces to bid on and the introduction to the guard house.
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Philip duBarry
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
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andreww wrote:
I don't equate step-on-toes with take-that at all. Take-that is simplistic, direct. Step-on-toes is indirect, subtler. Take-that is just knocking others down, trying to advance yourself, whoever draws the best cards or rolls the best rolls wins. Step-on-toes is trying to edge the other guy out, so that no matter what they do next they have lost ground, and you've secured your position; you are much more the master of your fate.
Right on, then.
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Ronald Chavez
United States
Hacienda Heights
California
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netizen wrote: I think The Palace expansion does away with the run away leader with all the extra spaces to bid on and the introduction to the guard house.
I agree, the last game with the Palace was much more balanced, and the person who usually powered his way was out done by subtle maneuvering.
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Rick Carnagey
United States
Wake Forest
North Carolina
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ronster0 wrote: netizen wrote: I think The Palace expansion does away with the run away leader with all the extra spaces to bid on and the introduction to the guard house. I agree, the last game with the Palace was much more balanced, and the person who usually powered his way was out done by subtle maneuvering.
Personally I really like having the option of playing with or without the Palace expansion. It makes it a somewhat different enough game that it keeps it fresh for me.
I never feel like I am tired of playing Revolution now that the expansion has come out. Making it a 6 player game really is helping me to give it more play time at family gatherings now too.
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