Joseph Tomassi
United States
Melvindale
Michigan
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In a game played tonight with a new opponent two arguments arose involving movement:
1. Karl(5-3-6)is commanding a combined Austria/Russian Army of 6 Corps in Westgalizien. He wants to move the entire stack two areas (Bohmen - KernOsterreich). As he does so, Napoleon plays "Mud" and tells Karl that two of his Corps (2-2-2) must be left behind in Bohmen. Karl says that the 1 MA loss doesn't effect those two Corps at all because his leader's MA3 covers the entire army as per rule 12.2.2 .
Which is the correct interpretation???
2. Lannes (5-4-4), a fresh reinforcement, is moving up to join Napoleon. Karl says that Lannes is automatically flipped over in area 3 and his turn ended. Napoleon says that it is not automatic. Player Aid Card 2 merely states that Corps are "Subject To Attrition" in both Areas 3 and 4, etc.. Lannes must roll for "possible" Attrition in each Area. One fresh Corps, moving alone, would receive Attrition only on a die roll of 1. If Lannes rolls a 1, his move is ended and he is flipped over. If Lannes rolls a 2 - 6, he can move into Area 4, but he must roll again for possible Attrition. So unless Lannes rolled a 1 in Area Three or Area Four, he could move four areas and arrive at full strength.
Which is the correct interpretation?
Thanks for your help.
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Martin Lange
Germany
Hannover
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Although I think that Renaud himself will answer your questions as he is often around here, he'll probably be thankful if someone else answers them and he only has to confirm that the answers are correct :), so I'll try.
Please note that I'm referring to the second version of the rules here.
Note that I do not have the map in front of me, so I assume your movements where correct as described up to the point where your questions arose.
1. As per 12.2.2, movement allowance is always determined for the whole army based on the movement rating of its leader, not for each corps separately, which means Karl's interpretation is the correct one. Moreover, Napoleon isn't even allowed to review the composition of Karl's army stack (although he could of course remember the values of the corps from having seen them before). This conforms with the general principle that you always only need to see the army leader to know what the army is allowed to do. I think this answer is also valid for the first version of the rules.
2. 12.3.3 is thje critical section here. When Lannes enters his third area, he becomes subject to march attrition. He avoids a die roll, but must become spent instead, i.e. is flipped to the other side. Note that a fresh corp never takes part in a die roll when it is subject to its first cause of march attrition, but it always becomes spent unconditionally (no die roll to determine this), and from the second cause on (can happen in the same area if there are several causes for march attrition) it is now spent and is now subject to the die-rolling rule. Moreover, since movement allowance is affected immediately, Lannes movement allowance is reduced now (I assume he has MR 3 on the spent side, does he? Don't have the counter in front of me), and as it is now only 3 and he has already moved 3 areas, his move ends.
So again, Karl's interpretation is the correct one.
Note that march attrition has severely changed from the first to the second version of the rules, so this answer canniot directly be applied to the first version, but from what you write I thunk you are using the second version.
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
United States
Astoria
New York
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Martin is correct, as I understand the rules.
I have found it best to think of the maximum normal movement allowance as only 2, since attrition kicks in for the third area. Normally you want to avoid attrition, but Napoleon can often win battles even when spent...
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Joseph Tomassi
United States
Melvindale
Michigan
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Thanks all of you for your prompt responses.
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Renaud Verlaque
United States
New York
New York
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All correct - thanks, guys.
Note that while a commander with a rating of 4 may not be able to move farther than a commander with a rating of 3 (because its MR drops to 3 after entering the 3rd region and therefore he cannot move to a 4th region), he will still have a better chance to intercept or withdraw.
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Martin Lange
Germany
Hannover
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Sorry for misspelling your name, Renaud, I corrected it above :).
Another advantage of a commander with rating 4 over one with 3 I think is that he can do the following:
1) If attacking an army positioned directly adjacent to his current location before his move, he can attack, and if the enemy withdraws, he can attack again, which needs a movement allowance of 4 (2x -1 for attacking) if I understand the rules correctly.
2) He can attack an army which is 3 areas away from his starting position, which an MR 3 leader could not do, since again a MA of 4 is needed (3 areas and -1 for attacking). Although he will then be spent right before attacking and have only an MR of 3 then, which also immediatley affects his MA, since he has already completed his move when that happens, it does not prevent him from attacking like this. It's a little arkward that he has then only an MA of 3 but has used an MA of 4, but the reduction of MA only affects future moves if I got it right, because it happens after the move has ended.
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Renaud Verlaque
United States
New York
New York
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You are correct on #2, but not quite on #1 as the penalty for attacking applies only once.
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Martin Lange
Germany
Hannover
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Ah, ok. Could you point out where this is to be found in the rules? The only thing I currently remember is that it states, the penalty applies even if the enemy withdraws, and that the moving army can follow the enemy provided MA is not yet exhausted. Now my imagination was that "even if the enemy withdraws" means that the army will deploy in a special, broader way as opposed to column formations used when marching. Now, if the enemy withdraws, it will have spent time on that deployment nevertheless, so the penalty still applies. But to move after the enemy now, the army will have to form into column again, move, and then again form a broad battle line. At least, as I said, that was my imagination. Plus, there is no mention in the rules that the penalty applies only once, AFAIR.
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Renaud Verlaque
United States
New York
New York
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You're only moving once and effectively attacking once, therefore you are only penalized once.
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