Michael "Tie-Dyed-Eyes"
United States
California
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On our recent houseboat vacation, my daughter finally had mercy on me and agreed to play San Juan. Then I got a sweet setup and was feeling guilty about how badly I was going to destroy her.
My first build was the Chapel, I didn't tuck any cards away early, but by game end I was producing so well, I always had cards to burn. I had at least 6 chapel points. The rest was pure synergy:
Guild Hall: 2 extra pts for each production building
Smithy: Build production buildings cheaper
Aqueduct: extra production
Trading post: extra trade
and 7 production buildings, for a total of 39 points.
But I was greedy, and dragged the game out 2 rounds trying for a Silver mine as my final build. This gave my daughter the extra time she needed to drop a couple of big cards, closing the gap significantly.
She had a City Hall which gave bonus for violet buildings, with the card that let you build violet buildings for cheaper. And the Triumphal arch with 2 out of 3 monuments, So it was nowhere near the slaughter I was predicting, as she weighed in with 31 points. Well done.
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United States
Danbury
Connecticut
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Going heavily into production in 2-player is definitely risky.
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Len
United States
Austin
Texas
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Using production in a 2-players game is an inferior strategy. Its nearly un-winnable using production if you play with someone who knows how to play.
2-player = go purple.
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James 3
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
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LSMB wrote: Using production in a 2-players game is an inferior strategy. Its nearly un-winnable using production if you play with someone who knows how to play.
2-player = go purple.
is SanJuan really so lopsided on strategy in 2 player? I LOVE Race for the Galaxy and prefer it 2 player, and find that any strategy (be it military, production, or crazy 6 drop synergy etc) has a chance of winning regardless of player count. I'm tempted to get SanJuan despite it seeming like RftG lite, because card driven tableau games are hands down my favorite type of game. But is there really a "best" strategy in 2 player? does that bias go away with more players? maybe this difference in the games is a direct result of sequential vs simultaneous action selection?
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Kevin B. Smith
United States
Margate
Florida
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flamejuggler wrote: LSMB wrote: Using production in a 2-players game is an inferior strategy. Its nearly un-winnable using production if you play with someone who knows how to play.
2-player = go purple. is SanJuan really so lopsided on strategy in 2 player? I LOVE Race for the Galaxy and prefer it 2 player, and find that any strategy (be it military, production, or crazy 6 drop synergy etc) has a chance of winning regardless of player count. I'm tempted to get SanJuan despite it seeming like RftG lite, because card driven tableau games are hands down my favorite type of game. But is there really a "best" strategy in 2 player? does that bias go away with more players? maybe this difference in the games is a direct result of sequential vs simultaneous action selection?
I have read, and experienced, that beginning players often find production to be an unbeatable 2p strategy. Apparently after you get enough experience, violet becomes an unbeatable 2p strategy.
Assuming the latter is true, I think the main differences are:
- In Race you can produce and consume several goods each turn. In SJ, I think the very best you can do is 3, and you have to build some non-production buildings to get to that.
- In Race you can go straight to VP and drain the pool to end the game before others have built 12 card. In SJ that's not an option.
Personally I prefer SJ to Race (in general), and haven't yet played enough 2p SJ for it to lose its shine.
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Len
United States
Austin
Texas
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flamejuggler wrote: LSMB wrote: Using production in a 2-players game is an inferior strategy. Its nearly un-winnable using production if you play with someone who knows how to play.
2-player = go purple. is SanJuan really so lopsided on strategy in 2 player? I LOVE Race for the Galaxy and prefer it 2 player, and find that any strategy (be it military, production, or crazy 6 drop synergy etc) has a chance of winning regardless of player count. I'm tempted to get SanJuan despite it seeming like RftG lite, because card driven tableau games are hands down my favorite type of game. But is there really a "best" strategy in 2 player? does that bias go away with more players? maybe this difference in the games is a direct result of sequential vs simultaneous action selection?
Yes, it is lopsided.
The basic reason is that you must play multiple roles for production to produce cards, and in a 2p game your "purple", or building opponent will not select those roles. So, you will be behind, building less, and the game will end before you can catch up to the "building" player. Also, at a minimum when you produce, you are still giving your opponent a "free" card.
I enjoy SJ, but it is nearly broken as a 2p game (maybe not broken, but half the game, the "production" is not viable and so is not as fun).
SJ with more players is a different story. For example, with 4p games, no matter what everyone takes a role and so someone will also be grabbing something to produce or trade, making production a far more viable strategy.
I moved on to a much better, deeper game: glory to rome. It worked well as a two player, but might be too deep for some players who like SJ. However, they share the role selection mechanism and many players who like SJ like GtR. I've not played RFtG, so can't comment on that.
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James 3
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
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LSMB wrote: I enjoy SJ, but it is nearly broken as a 2p game (maybe not broken, but half the game, the "production" is not viable and so is not as fun). SJ with more players is a different story. For example, with 4p games, no matter what everyone takes a role and so someone will also be grabbing something to produce or trade, making production a far more viable strategy. I moved on to a much better, deeper game: glory to rome. It worked well as a two player, but might be too deep for some players who like SJ. However, they share the role selection mechanism and many players who like SJ like GtR. I've not player RFtG, so can't comment on that.
i love RftG. I also am a big fan of GtR and have the black box version on its way. Since I have these 2 games, I didnt think I needed San Juan too, but I do like PR and these style of games alot...but if 2 player is lopsided, I think i can safely abstain and enjoy the games I have.
I'm interested in learning more about the forthcoming Tournay. Looks like card driven tableau engine goodness...
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Len
United States
Austin
Texas
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flamejuggler wrote: LSMB wrote: I enjoy SJ, but it is nearly broken as a 2p game (maybe not broken, but half the game, the "production" is not viable and so is not as fun). SJ with more players is a different story. For example, with 4p games, no matter what everyone takes a role and so someone will also be grabbing something to produce or trade, making production a far more viable strategy. I moved on to a much better, deeper game: glory to rome. It worked well as a two player, but might be too deep for some players who like SJ. However, they share the role selection mechanism and many players who like SJ like GtR. I've not player RFtG, so can't comment on that. i love RftG. I also am a big fan of GtR and have the black box version on its way. Since I have these 2 games, I didnt think I needed San Juan too, but I do like PR and these style of games alot...but if 2 player is lopsided, I think i can safely abstain and enjoy the games I have. I'm interested in learning more about the forthcoming Tournay. Looks like card driven tableau engine goodness...
I have GtR and still think SJ has a home in my collection. For 3 or 4 players (and even 2, if you must), it is a lighter, easier to teach game compared to GtR. I just would not buy it as a two player game.
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