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I'm new to the game and new to this forum, so be easy
I've played the original Dominion a few times and just picked up Intrigue myself and played with a friend. The set up is new for both of us.
In our 2nd game, Mining Village, Nobles, and Swindle were there and made for an easy combination and win. Basically, I started heavily buying Mining Village at a cost of $4 whenever possible. By being able to stack these, I was able to reach $4 on most turns to continue buying. Whenever I was short, I purchased a Swindle card. The +$2 for the swindle helped as well. Within a few turns I was able to start buying Nobles whenever I hit $6. These were the only 3 cards I purchased. By the middle of the game, I was running through my entire deck by combining the extra cards/actions of both Mining Village and Nobles and using original copper and the $2 of the 2-3 Swindles I had to continue buying a Noble on every turn. I'd easily hit $8 but remained dedicated to eliminating the Nobles pile. With my Swindles, I was also able to continue to neutralize my opponent's deck and add curses as well.
At the end, I hadn't purchased a single treasure card but, by combining the Mining Village/Nobles/Swindle, would hit $8 on every turn.
Has anyone tried this? How would you counteract this?
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Paul W
United States
Eugene
Oregon
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I'd probably just outrun it...lacking any additional buys, the strategy you've outlined is relatively slow.
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Thomas Brendel
United States
Dunwoody
Georgia
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A question, because it's not totally clear from your description and it sounds like you may have been misplaying this:
You know that you only get the 2 coins if you trash Mining Village, right? It's not something you can do over and over.
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Blorb Plorbst
United States
Bloomington
Indiana
I think we're all bozos on this bus.
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Nobles and Swindler are top notch cards when bought wisely. Mining Village has never passed the "Silver Test" for me. That is, I'd almost always rather draw a Silver than a Mining Village.
Not knowing what other cards were out I can't say if better choices could be made. and I'm no expert either but I'd side with fizzmore's assessment that it's a bit slow.
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David Murray
England
Plymouth
Devon
I'm the mod, so I know EVERYTHING >:)
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Squidd wrote: A question, because it's not totally clear from your description and it sounds like you may have been misplaying this:
You know that you only get the 2 coins if you trash Mining Village, right? It's not something you can do over and over.
Yeh, sounds like the OP was using mining village for +2$ each time without trashing it.
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Matthew Cordeiro
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
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david707 wrote: Squidd wrote: A question, because it's not totally clear from your description and it sounds like you may have been misplaying this:
You know that you only get the 2 coins if you trash Mining Village, right? It's not something you can do over and over. Yeh, sounds like the OP was using mining village for +2$ each time without trashing it.
I'm not so sure. He specifically said he was using Mining Village for card/actions and Swindler + Copper for coins.
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Matthew Cordeiro
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
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fizzmore wrote: I'd probably just outrun it...lacking any additional buys, the strategy you've outlined is relatively slow.
Agreed.
I like the Mining Village if you need extra actions or if you need treasure from non-treasure cards to counter the Thief or the Pirate Ship. This sounds like an Intrigue-only game with Nobles in play, so the + actions was covered, and the aforementioned attack cards probably weren't in play. Overall, I consider Mining village okay, but not great. I think you could have pulled off the same strategy even faster with Silvers instead of Mining Village.
Swindler works great in the very beginning of the game (Coppers into Curses) and at the very end of the game (victory cards into non-victory cards). In the middle of the game, it tends to be a Silver that uses up an action. I'm more inclined to use Swindler in a 4-player, non-trashing game due to the high likelihood of swindling Coppers.
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Squidd wrote: A question, because it's not totally clear from your description and it sounds like you may have been misplaying this:
You know that you only get the 2 coins if you trash Mining Village, right? It's not something you can do over and over.
No, I'm using the 2 coins on Swindle. With 2-3 Swindles, you can get to $6 very easily.
As far is it being slow, my deck consisted entirely of mining villages, nobles, 7 coppers, and 3 swindles. Each turn would go along the lines of:
Mining Village
Mining Village
Mining Village
Nobles (3 cards)
Nobles (3 cards)
Mining Village
Nobles (3 cards)
Mining Village
Nobles (3 cards)
Swindle
Swindle
4 copper
I could get the above started usually with 2 mining villages, 2 nobles, or 1 mining village/1 noble in my starting hand as any of those would get me +1/2 actions and +2/3 cards. Once I got the run going, it was self-feeding since there was nothing in my hand to dilute.
In essence, I'd run through my entire deck on almost every turn. If I wasn't able to, I'd buy another swindle or mining village. It didn't take long to accumulate those cards either. Also, this is with 2-3 swindles almost every turn, I was wreaking havoc on my opponent's hand, adding curses and removing either his money or intended action cards. And the Nobles are 2 victory points on their own.
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fizzmore wrote: I'd probably just outrun it...lacking any additional buys, the strategy you've outlined is relatively slow.
I don't remember exactly how long it took me to accumulate my hand but I don't think it was long at all. Once there, I was able to generate 6 coins on virtually every turn to buy the nobles and then I was able to generate 8 coins on virtually every turn as well. It was a pretty quick game and it wasn't even close.
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Jeff Wolfe
United States
Columbus
Ohio
Zendo fan, Columbus Blue Jackets fan, Dominion Fan. These are 'permanent microbadges' to free up space on my microbadge row
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gianmarco00 wrote: fizzmore wrote: I'd probably just outrun it...lacking any additional buys, the strategy you've outlined is relatively slow. I don't remember exactly how long it took me to accumulate my hand but I don't think it was long at all. Once there, I was able to generate 6 coins on virtually every turn to buy the nobles and then I was able to generate 8 coins on virtually every turn as well. It was a pretty quick game and it wasn't even close.
Just at a glance, it looks like a slow strategy to me too. It's difficult to say more without knowing what was in the setup and what your opponent was doing.
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jeffwolfe wrote: gianmarco00 wrote: fizzmore wrote: I'd probably just outrun it...lacking any additional buys, the strategy you've outlined is relatively slow. I don't remember exactly how long it took me to accumulate my hand but I don't think it was long at all. Once there, I was able to generate 6 coins on virtually every turn to buy the nobles and then I was able to generate 8 coins on virtually every turn as well. It was a pretty quick game and it wasn't even close. Just at a glance, it looks like a slow strategy to me too. It's difficult to say more without knowing what was in the setup and what your opponent was doing.
Again, as I'm new to the game, I may not realize what is "slow" and what is "fast". I did, however, just set up a game and played a 1 vs. 1, playing both hands myself. One hand was going for big money and VPs as quickly as possible while the other went this route. Included in the game were pawns, bridge, and minion that I picked up as well. Here is how it went:
1st round (with 2): bought pawn
2nd round (with 5): bought mining village
3rd round: bought mining village
4th round: bought swindle
5th round: bought mining village
6th round: bought minion
7th round: bought nobles
8th round: bought swindle
9th round: bought mining village
10th round: bought nobles
With swindle costing only 3 and mining village only 4, I was able to get these pretty much every round. One of those rounds around this time, I only had 2 and settled for a pawn. Every other time, I'd buy a swindle if only 3 and a mining village if 4. If I got to 6, I bought a nobles.
Also about this point, I started burning through half the deck on some turns, guaranteeing another noble. By the time I hit about 6 nobles, I was getting through the majority of my deck on a turn. This was also about the time that the other hand was getting ripe with gold treasure cards. But, this is where the swindles kicked in. I was swindling the other hand 2-3 times every round. It destroyed the other hand.
In the end, I had 12 noble cards, 10 mining villages, 4 swindles, 1 minion, 1 bridge, and 2 pawns and 7 coppers. The noble cards and mining villages allowed me to run through the entire deck every time. That's about 30-35 rounds of play to get there. Once there, I was buying 2 provinces each turn (+2 on each swindle, +2 on the minion, +7 copper, +1 bridge with an extra buy). Even without the extra buy, once I got these in my hand, it was a guaranteed province.
I would do mining villages first to load up actions and use nobles for +3 cards unless needed for the final actions.
Between adding curses and removing treasure cards, the other hand was only able to muster enough for 35 victory points. The Nobles alone were worth 24 (2 VP's each x 12) and I was able to pick up 6 provinces in 3 rounds.
Without an attack card, I don't see how it could be stopped. And yes, this is an Intrigue only cards used game.
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gianmarco00 wrote: Without an attack card, I don't see how it could be stopped.
I do. Watch:
gianmarco00 wrote: That's about 30-35 rounds of play to get there.
30-35 rounds is a LOT. Try this, just as an experiment: play a game with Smithy. During the game, buy nothing but Silver, Gold, Provinces, and a single copy of a Smithy. Count how many rounds it takes you to buy four Provinces (the average number of Provinces per player in a 2-3 player game); the average in simulations is ~14. No strategy that takes 30+ rounds to get off the ground will be able to beat that.
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Paul W
United States
Eugene
Oregon
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Indeed. For a basic tableau of cards without an attack, the baseline is about 17 turns to end the game with just money cards (assuming you and your opponent are both going after provinces). The are many cards (Smithy for example) that can easily bring the game end down to turn 14-15, and a few particularly strong combos that will end the game around that 12 turn mark.
30-35 turn games are fairly uncommon, and generally involve some particularly nasty attack combinations (e.g. fast cursing without trashing or +cards), or alternate victory routes (e.g. goons).
In your game, by the time your engine was getting up and running I would already have 3-4 provinces, and given the absence of +buy that would've clinched the game for me.
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Jeff Wolfe
United States
Columbus
Ohio
Zendo fan, Columbus Blue Jackets fan, Dominion Fan. These are 'permanent microbadges' to free up space on my microbadge row
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First off, a rules note: in a two-player game, there are only 8 of each Victory card, including Victory Kingdom cards such as Nobles. So if you're playing a two-player game, it's impossible to get 12 Nobles. Also, there are only 10 Curses in the Supply for 2 players.
Secondly, 30-35 turns per player is a really long game. Depending on the setup, it's not unreasonably for a game to go 15-20 turns. I've seen quicker. If somebody is playing an attack-heavy strategy, that's going to draw the game out a little, but again, the originally proposed strategy is going to try to end the game before you really get going.
I'm going to buy Provinces sooner rather than later, because Swindling a Province into a Province is only going to help me against your strategy, if it even comes to a Province ending. And if the only options at 6 are Gold and Nobles, I'm not unhappy with either of those.
I've only seen 6 of the 10 Kingdom cards, so I still don't know what my options might be for dealing with Curses. If there aren't any, I might get a Swindler just to reduce the impact and slow you down a little more. And there might be a card you haven't mentioned that I might want to build a strategy around. With what I know, I might go Minion/money, although you always have to be flexible when it comes to anti-Swindler.
If you manage to drain Nobles and Curses (perhaps with my help), I might just be able to find another pile to finish off to win with about 20 points before you've bought your first Province.
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Paul W
United States
Eugene
Oregon
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CrankyPants wrote: Nobles and Swindler are top notch cards when bought wisely. Mining Village has never passed the "Silver Test" for me. That is, I'd almost always rather draw a Silver than a Mining Village.
As an aside, in sound to me like you may be undervaluing Mining Village, which is a useful card not only any time you want extra actions, but also any time you don't want silvers clogging your deck. Keep in mind the when you trash a Mining Village you still get the +1 card and +2 actions, so when you do eventually decide to use it, it's like having an extra +$2 and +1 action in addition to your 5 card hand, which is quite a bit more useful than a silver for that one shot that you use it.
It's not a must-buy by any means, but it passes the silver test in a very broad variety of circumstances
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Mike Young
United States
Sterling
Virginia
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So what were you Swindling your opponent's gold into?
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Ron Olivier, Sr.
United States
North Smithfield
Rhode Island
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Got to agree with Paul W.
The Mining Village has often proved to be a very handy weapon, and though it's not a card I'd pick over a silver for my initial few hands, I like the opportunity to trash it on demand - either for the $2 or just to tighten up my deck.
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salty53 wrote:
30-35 rounds is a LOT. Try this, just as an experiment: play a game with Smithy. During the game, buy nothing but Silver, Gold, Provinces, and a single copy of a Smithy. Count how many rounds it takes you to buy four Provinces (the average number of Provinces per player in a 2-3 player game); the average in simulations is ~14. No strategy that takes 30+ rounds to get off the ground will be able to beat that.
What's the Intrigue-only equivalent of this experiment?
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Drew Spencer
United States
Tucson
Arizona
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Doomclown wrote: salty53 wrote:
30-35 rounds is a LOT. Try this, just as an experiment: play a game with Smithy. During the game, buy nothing but Silver, Gold, Provinces, and a single copy of a Smithy. Count how many rounds it takes you to buy four Provinces (the average number of Provinces per player in a 2-3 player game); the average in simulations is ~14. No strategy that takes 30+ rounds to get off the ground will be able to beat that.
What's the Intrigue-only equivalent of this experiment?
If you want to keep the simplicity of the strategy, probably Torturer. However, a better card would be Masquerade. Buy one Masquerade early and pass/trash Estates and then Coppers and then anything else you want to part with. Other than that, just buy treasure. That will end the game in way fewer than 30 turns.
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Doomclown wrote: What's the Intrigue-only equivalent of this experiment?
Courtyard is an excellent substitute for Smithy; if I recall correctly, Big Money + 2 Courtyards is only the slightest bit slower than Big Money + 2 Smithies in draining the Provinces. But really, any strong terminal Action will do - Drew suggested Torturer and Masquerade, both excellent choices.
Of course, all of this is unnecessary. To demonstrate just how weak the 30-35 turn strategy is, buying nothing but Treasure and Provinces with no Actions at all will still end the game far too fast. And this Treasure-only strategy is available in every Kingdom Card pool.
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