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Quarriors!» Forums » Variants

Subject: Dr. Houserule, or how I made some minor changes to make my game more fun for me and stopped worrying rss

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Matt Crawford
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Lordnameci wrote:
For Quarriors, if you are unhappy with the culling rule, play that you can only cull the creature you score, and that you have the option of keeping the creature and not scoring it if you feel that is the strategic thing to do. If you score it though, it goes back into the wilds.


Our group (more serious than casual) did try this rule once, and honestly it made for a extremely dull and boring game. I'm surprised it was successful in your playtest groups with more serious gamers. We found that it sucked all the life, all the energy out of the game because your "deck" never got anywhere. Everything was flat, the whole game, until someone finally ground out enough VP.

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The reason for this is that Quarriors is a toolbox game. Now I know some of you are thinking, "Mike, that is a total dodge if you are expecting players to house rule the game to compensate for your obvious lack of design skills.", but I do a lot of games this way anyway.


I think the problem here is that some people like myself do not like playing with variant rules. I don't like playing with my own variants, I don't like coming up with them, and I definitely don't like playing with other people's variants.

Now in this case if you are saying that there were two different sets of rules, each targeted at a different audience or for a different experience, that seems reasonable. But when there are just a bunch of variants buzzing around, it's impossible to feel like I'm playing a tight, well-designed game because it keeps changing. And I don't want to do the work of figuring out which variant works the best.


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Anthony L.
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Lordnameci wrote:
The variant rules will make it into print at some point. If there is demand for it, I can see if Bryan can post that page from the future rulebook as a PDF download file after Essen is over.

Mike


I would love to see these myself. I'm one of those people that likes to stick to the printed rules, and I usually only ever house rule something after it's been played a large number of times. These rules seem like they could be pretty good though.
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Paul Grogan
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Lordnameci wrote:
Another choice was to allow you to cull any dice when you score instead of the previous rule where you only culled the dice that you scored.


I too think these rules should have been in the back of the rulebook as an official advanced variant.

However, one question - if we play with the above rule, then are we saying that a player then cant cull any basic quiddity dice?
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Christopher Ebert
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If you're culling creatures in order to score them, you'll need your basic quiddity more than you would otherwise.
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Jamie Pollock
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The cull the creature optional 'advanced' rule seems a bit meh. It'll take out one of the finishing mechanisms and reduce combo potential, while at the same time prolonging the game and levelling out scoring. I'm sure there's a better culling mechanism out there.

The 2 buys one has merit and should add a layer of strategy, though in 3 or 4 player games I'd imagine this leading to considerably more games ending with the 4 creature piles empty.
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Ludovic Roy
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shacky22 wrote:
If you're culling creatures in order to score them, you'll need your basic quiddity more than you would otherwise.


Which is always available to buy, with the advanced rules you can pick up multiple dice per turn.
 
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Eric Foldenauer
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Luds wrote:
shacky22 wrote:
If you're culling creatures in order to score them, you'll need your basic quiddity more than you would otherwise.


Which is always available to buy, with the advanced rules you can pick up multiple dice per turn.


As long as there are any in the supply to be had.
 
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Eric Foldenauer
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Jambo wrote:
The cull the creature optional 'advanced' rule seems a bit meh. It'll take out one of the finishing mechanisms and reduce combo potential, while at the same time prolonging the game and levelling out scoring. I'm sure there's a better culling mechanism out there.

The 2 buys one has merit and should add a layer of strategy, though in 3 or 4 player games I'd imagine this leading to considerably more games ending with the 4 creature piles empty.
The 4 piles being empty to end the game more frequently will be true when you exclude the advanced culling rule that you are choosing not to use. Also, combos using spells would now be much more important with the advanced culling rule (since spells would not self-cull), as is anything that culls other dice besides itself.
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Nathan Moore
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From my own perspective, I LOVE variants, I just wish that if there are variants that were tried, work, but didn't make them into the final game, that they would be included in rulebook. That way I dont have to search bgg for them, or have someone refuse to play them on the grounds they could be unbalanced.
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Paul DeStefano
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I love culling as is, but this 2 die buy really adds a nice touch! Easier to deny dice to the opponent. Less 'always go for the most expensive', more reasons for more Quid.

2 die per turn it is!
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Kiren Maelwulf
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Geosphere wrote:
I love culling as is, but this 2 die buy really adds a nice touch! Easier to deny dice to the opponent. Less 'always go for the most expensive', more reasons for more Quid.

2 die per turn it is!


I have to agree, I can't imagine changing culling as is, it seems crucial to keep the game flowing smoothly. Additional purchases NEEDS to happen though, just as there are options in Dominion. I am not certain a static 2 purchases is the way to go as I think having the abilitiy on more dice or a basic die would be better, but I think I will try it out some more a see what comes from it.
 
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Nathan Moore
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You know...


It would be kinda cool to introduce that as an additional mechanic, much like the +Buy in dominion, have some rule that allows you to buy multiple creatures instead of just one.
 
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The Broox
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aielman wrote:
You know...


It would be kinda cool to introduce that as an additional mechanic, much like the +Buy in dominion, have some rule that allows you to buy multiple creatures instead of just one.


Go read through all of your spell cards, you might be surprised what is already there.
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Nathan Moore
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The Broox wrote:
aielman wrote:
You know...


It would be kinda cool to introduce that as an additional mechanic, much like the +Buy in dominion, have some rule that allows you to buy multiple creatures instead of just one.


Go read through all of your spell cards, you might be surprised what is already there.


lol I have it ordered, haven't received it yet. Just going off of what I have seen.
 
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Kiren Maelwulf
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aielman wrote:
The Broox wrote:
aielman wrote:
You know...


It would be kinda cool to introduce that as an additional mechanic, much like the +Buy in dominion, have some rule that allows you to buy multiple creatures instead of just one.


Go read through all of your spell cards, you might be surprised what is already there.


lol I have it ordered, haven't received it yet. Just going off of what I have seen.


There is actually only a single spell that offers aditional buys right now, and one creature that itself is costly. Would be nice to have more +buy options for sure.
 
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Nathan Moore
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Kirenx wrote:
aielman wrote:
The Broox wrote:
aielman wrote:
You know...


It would be kinda cool to introduce that as an additional mechanic, much like the +Buy in dominion, have some rule that allows you to buy multiple creatures instead of just one.


Go read through all of your spell cards, you might be surprised what is already there.


lol I have it ordered, haven't received it yet. Just going off of what I have seen.


There is actually only a single spell that offers aditional buys right now, and one creature that itself is costly. Would be nice to have more +buy options for sure.



See, I am thinking more of like the reroll symbol. Some symbol that occasionally shows up with a quiddly roll. So "Hey look I get 3 quiddly AND I can buy 2 instead of one this turn." or "Hey I can get 1 quiddly, or I can buy 2 instead of one" I think it would add more to the quiddly rolls that way as well.
 
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K.Y. Wong
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Hows about this - you can pay 2 quiddity to make a second purchase. This would not make the existing spell ability obsolete.
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Jesse Beu
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aielman wrote:
Kirenx wrote:
aielman wrote:
The Broox wrote:
aielman wrote:
You know...


It would be kinda cool to introduce that as an additional mechanic, much like the +Buy in dominion, have some rule that allows you to buy multiple creatures instead of just one.


Go read through all of your spell cards, you might be surprised what is already there.


lol I have it ordered, haven't received it yet. Just going off of what I have seen.


There is actually only a single spell that offers aditional buys right now, and one creature that itself is costly. Would be nice to have more +buy options for sure.



See, I am thinking more of like the reroll symbol. Some symbol that occasionally shows up with a quiddly roll. So "Hey look I get 3 quiddly AND I can buy 2 instead of one this turn." or "Hey I can get 1 quiddly, or I can buy 2 instead of one" I think it would add more to the quiddly rolls that way as well.


There is another variant where the assistant fills this role. Basically, if the assistant turns up you can either pay 1Q and summon as normal OR spend the assistant (unsummoned) to gain an additional buy (thematically the idea is he goes and catches something from the wilds as well). This seems to fill that gap and would be nice to see in an 'official variants' since it seems many less-casual gamers are playing with this variant already. Makes the assistant more useful by actually assisting.

(This variant seems to always be coupled with the culling mechanism too (thematically, he takes out the trash). Spend an unsummoned assistant to cull a die OR +1 buy or summon him normally. There seem to be some small variations to this (whether this replaces normal culling or not), so an official variant in some rulebook would be nice to standardize that across groups since I imagine this will get play at conventions and strategy shifts accordingly).

Fun game! (And cool that the developer listens to the community!)
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Richard Dewsbery
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I've played between ten and twenty games of Quarriors with the rules as published, and between ten and twenty games allowing the purchase of two dice per turn.

Playing the game the second way does somewhat weaken two of the 45 creature/spell cards, but improves the rest of the game no end. As published, the game ranks a 7/10 from me (ie quite good, worth playing, but with a room full of other, quite good games I wouldn't buy it); with this one small change, it's at least an 8/10.

The games will still be decided largely by luck, but it does at least feel like you have meaningful decisions to make - and when you can choose between a wizard, or two portals, or a life spell and a death spell, the choice isn't as obvious as it was when you only got one buy.

I've tried a couple of other changes (like always playing to 20 points), but none of them fix as much and as easily as granting a +1 buy to everyone.
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Max Maloney
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I tried it with the change that a creature culls itself on scoring and I thought it was a significant improvement. In fact, I would swear I could tell some of the game was designed with this rule in place. It fixed so many little things!
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David Hoffman
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Dormammu wrote:
I tried it with the change that a creature culls itself on scoring and I thought it was a significant improvement. In fact, I would swear I could tell some of the game was designed with this rule in place. It fixed so many little things!


We tried this variant this afternoon and I really liked it. There were a couple instances where I decided it was worthwhile to keep a creature rather than scoring it.

We also played with the 2 buy rule and that, too, felt like an improvement. In previous games the standard practice, when one had a good roll, was to just buy the single most expensive creature or spell you could. By having two buys, we had the flexibility to spread that cash around in more creative ways.

There are a couple creatures we felt didn't benefit from these rules but, overall, I think it's a much more interesting game using these two variants.
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Chris Ferejohn
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Tried both these changes at once and in my opinion it a) improved the game markedly *and* b) improved the experience for first-time players.

When I'd taught this game in the past, most first time players had to be reminded multiple times about having just one buy, and were frustrated that they couldn't buy 2 things.

The culling rule not only stopped the runaway leader problem, but it made a lot more sense to new players. It's easy to forget that players without magic/dominion experience often don't understand that culling "good" cards/dice (after all, quiddity is "good", right?) in fact improves your deck. Sending something back after scoring it makes much more sense to them. I got something (points) so now I have to give something up.

It also means that piles don't tend to empty out, which seems to be a negative experience.

I see what you mean about players not wanting to give something up, but I think that is mostly born of expectations from Dominion. What is fundamentally different is that in Dominion when you buy a VP card you are weakening your deck, to the point where people won't buy estates, duchies, or sometimes even provinces when they have the opportunity. A dragon simply has no downside, so replicating the play pattern of keeping it in your "deck" and letting it score/attack over and over simply makes much less sense.

Letting expectations born of dominion inform design changes feels like it was a mistake to me.

In any case, I definitely will be playing with these changes going forward and I strongly encourage other people to try them as well (especially if you feel frustrated by the "he who buys the first dragon wins" syndrome).
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Mike S.
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Lordnameci wrote:
If there is demand for it, I can see if Bryan can post that page from the future rulebook as a PDF download file after Essen is over.Mike


Is this file still work in progress or was it already upped somewhere and I just missed it ?
 
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Paul Grogan
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Player77 wrote:
Lordnameci wrote:
If there is demand for it, I can see if Bryan can post that page from the future rulebook as a PDF download file after Essen is over.Mike


Is this file still work in progress or was it already upped somewhere and I just missed it ?


I think it is still work in progress. Hopefully something soon
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Kiren Maelwulf
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So I initially did not see the need for any variants for Quarriors. I did believe that more spells and abilities should be added that increase buys. Last night though I played a bunch of games with the 2 instead of 1 buy rule.

WOW

I had fiddled with it a bit before, but actually playing a bunch of games in a row, what a difference it makes. I have to say I can't see going back now. Love everything else about the game but considering the importance of purchasing in Quarriors the limited buying power does seem to me to ultimately hinder rather than help the game. This simple change solved that.
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