ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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In practice, it seems highly unlikely, but in theory, definitely possible.....
That's where you perform a super search and either... 1) decline the first card with the matching criteria and end up going through the entire deck without finding a 2nd card
or
2) Can't even find a single card with the matching criteria
Curious if a "super search" has ever failed for anyone, and under what conditions. AFAIK, it'd likely be a 6p game where tableaux are more full and people have more cards in hand, goods, and scavenged cards to suck out matching criteria cards.
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Mark Delano
United States Norwalk Connecticut
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The card you declined would go in the discard pile to be reshuffled for your search if necessary, which means you'd have to have 0 matching cards for it to fail (or the match would have to be in the discards in the first place).
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Tom Lehmann
United States Palo Alto California
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frunkee wrote: The card you declined would go in the discard pile to be reshuffled for your search if necessary, which means you'd have to have 0 matching cards for it to fail (or the match would have to be in the discards in the first place). This is incorrect. Previously searched cards are not added to the discard pile (if a reshuffle is triggered) until that search is done. See BoW rules, page 6, bottom two paragraphs where this is discussed.
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Serge
Canada Vancouver British Columbia
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I've never seen a search fail myself, tho i don't get that many 6p games in.
frunkee wrote: The card you declined would go in the discard pile to be reshuffled for your search if necessary That's incorrect.
BoW rulebook p6 wrote: To resolve a search, a player selects one of the nine search categories depicted on the search sheet and then reveals (to all players) cards from the supply one at a time, setting them aside. When a card matching the specified category is found, the player may either stop, taking that card in hand, or continue searching. If he continues searching, then when a second card matching the specified category is found, the player must stop and take that card in hand.
If the card supply is exhausted, shuffle the current discard pile to form a new supply and continue searching. If this new supply is exhausted, the search fails: the player takes no card in hand but retains his prestige/search action card for later use.
All previously revealed and set aside cards are then added face down to the discard pile. If the search was successful, the player then removes his prestige/search action card from the game.
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Piper
Canada Vancouver "Beautiful" British Columbia
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BoW rulebook p6 wrote: If the search was successful, the player then removes his prestige/search action card from the game.
At least you get to keep the search card if you fail. That means you can try again next turn!
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Mark Delano
United States Norwalk Connecticut
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Tom Lehmann wrote: frunkee wrote: The card you declined would go in the discard pile to be reshuffled for your search if necessary, which means you'd have to have 0 matching cards for it to fail (or the match would have to be in the discards in the first place). This is incorrect. Previously searched cards are not added to the discard pile (if a reshuffle is triggered) until that search is done. See BoW rules, page 6, bottom two paragraphs where this is discussed.
Is there any particular point to this rule? It seems like a fairly unecessary exception?
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ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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frunkee wrote: Tom Lehmann wrote: frunkee wrote: The card you declined would go in the discard pile to be reshuffled for your search if necessary, which means you'd have to have 0 matching cards for it to fail (or the match would have to be in the discards in the first place). This is incorrect. Previously searched cards are not added to the discard pile (if a reshuffle is triggered) until that search is done. See BoW rules, page 6, bottom two paragraphs where this is discussed. Is there any particular point to this rule? It seems like a fairly unecessary exception? AFAIK, it'd be pretty cruel to decline a card you didn't want, have to reshuffle, and then be forced to accept it since it came up again. I believe the whole point is so that the player would be garaunteed to receive 2 different physical cards.
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Tom Lehmann
United States Palo Alto California
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ackmondual wrote: frunkee wrote: Is there any particular point to this rule? AFAIK, it'd be pretty cruel to decline a card you didn't want, have to reshuffle, and then be forced to accept it since it came up again. I believe the whole point is so that the player would be garaunteed to receive 2 different physical cards. This is the main reason, but there were other reasons:
Another reason -- remembering that this case usually comes up only when there are few possible "matches" in the deck -- is to avoid the tedium of searching through a large portion of the deck (all misses), then reshuffling those cards back in and flipping many of these same cards over *again*.
A third is that for players who pay attention to what cards go by on a failed search, it's a lot easier to remember stuff that's gone by if you didn't -- midway through a search -- put some cards back into the deck. This way, everything that misses during a search is now in the discard pile at the end of the search. That's easier to track.
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Mark Delano
United States Norwalk Connecticut
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Tom Lehmann wrote: This is the main reason, but there were other reasons:
Another reason -- remembering that this case usually comes up only when there are few possible "matches" in the deck -- is to avoid the tedium of searching through a large portion of the deck (all misses), then reshuffling those cards back in and flipping many of these same cards over *again*.
A third is that for players who pay attention to what cards go by on a failed search, it's a lot easier to remember stuff that's gone by if you didn't -- midway through a search -- put some cards back into the deck. This way, everything that misses during a search is now in the discard pile at the end of the search. That's easier to track.
I suppose I can see that, but I think the situations where that will apply in a meaningful way seems small. With a large deck there is usually at least two cards that fit the criteria, so the reshuffle isn't needed. With a small deck the number of extra cards that need to be shuffled is small, so have less of an effect.
As for getting the same card twice, frequently when I skip the first card of a search it's a card that I'd be perfectly happy to get later. In those cases I'd prefer to have it reshuffled to improve the chances of getting it at another time even with the increased chances of drawing it again on the search.
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Tom Lehmann
United States Palo Alto California
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frunkee wrote: As for getting the same card twice, frequently when I skip the first card of a search it's a card that I'd be perfectly happy to get later. In those cases I'd prefer to have it reshuffled to improve the chances of getting it at another time even with the increased chances of drawing it again on the search. I think this change would reduce the intended tension or "angst" around whether to take or pass on the first search match. The intent is that it not come up again (barring a later reshuffle of the entire deck).
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