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The Castles of Burgundy: 1st Expansion – New Player Boards» Forums » Rules

Subject: New rule clarification rss

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Evgeni Liakhovich
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"If you give up 5 VP and both dice actions, you may put a castle from a previous round (dark a back of green or black) that you already set aside, on one of your free storage spaces."

That is one poor translation. Let me rephrase this they way I understand it, please let me know if you have a different interpretation:

"If you give up 5 VP and both dice actions, you may put a castle that you've already added to your estate previously (dark green or black back), on one of your free storage spaces."

I'm actually not sure that this is correct because this breaks the other new rule saying that "the tiles always need to be connected to a castle"..
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Steve Duff
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I think you've got it backwards. For 5 VP and both dice actions, you can place a castle on your board, if it's already on one of your free storage spaces. You give up points and a die in order to make a wild die, essentially.

As you say, your way it would just make your board illegal, and there's no reason to ever want to do it.

Remove the comma from the last line, and it makes sense.

Quote:
If you give up 5 VP and both dice actions, you may put [place] a castle from a previous round (a back of dark green or black) that you already set aside on one of your free storage spaces
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Evgeni Liakhovich
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So how your interpretation differs from the normal rules? Does it effectively allow you to place a castle regardless of your dice results? If that is all, it too expensive and just doesn't sound useful enough.

I actually thought that my interpretation had a reason behind it, despite being broken - you see, with the new rules you can get completely locked out if other people keep grabbing castles before you. So I thought this "5 VP" rule is a patch for that, allowing you to reuse your own castles at different spots.
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Steve Duff
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Glad8r wrote:
I actually thought that my interpretation had a reason behind it, despite being broken - you see, with the new rules you can get completely locked out if other people keep grabbing castles before you. So I thought this "5 VP" rule is a patch for that, allowing you to reuse your own castles at different spots.


I suppose that could be possible, I didn't think of it that way.

I'm still leaning my direction, as I think they would have had said something about leaving or removing illegal buildings that are almost sure to result from removing already built castles.

Hopefully someone official will pop in here.
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Werner Bär
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Glad8r wrote:
"If you give up 5 VP and both dice actions, you may put a castle from a previous round (dark a back of green or black) that you already set aside, on one of your free storage spaces."

Note that the new player boards have an additional restriction for placing tiles. Thus, it's harder to place tiles - especially if other players manage to deny you castle tiles. It may happen that you are unable to place any new tile at all unless you first place a new castle.

The new rule you quote is to help players in such a desperate situation. It allows you to pick a discarded ("set aside") tile from one of the earlier rounds of the game (usually discarded when cleaning the main board at the end of a phase - rarely discarded by a player due to lack of storage space), for a hefty price.

It's badly worded in english since "you" is usually the current player, but "you set aside" refers to the total game state.

I don't remember the german wording, but i think it was clear there.
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Steve Duff
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Option 3 for the win. laugh

Thanks Werner, that makes perfect sense now.
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Ken Thibodeau
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Werbaer wrote:

The new rule you quote is to help players in such a desperate situation. It allows you to pick a discarded ("set aside") tile from one of the earlier rounds of the game (usually discarded when cleaning the main board at the end of a phase - rarely discarded by a player due to lack of storage space), for a hefty price.


In a 2-player game, there's only 1 castle available each round (barring the occasional black tile castle). The castle is almost the very first tile taken every round, so it never ends up in the "discard pile". In other words we can never use the new rule even when "stuck".

Could it be that one can sacrifice 5 VP and both dice to take a castle from the supply instead of the discarded tiles?
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Steve Duff
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fardoche wrote:
In a 2-player game, there's only 1 castle available each round (barring the occasional black tile castle). The castle is almost the very first tile taken every round, so it never ends up in the "discard pile". In other words we can never use the new rule even when "stuck".


The black ones can end up in the discard if you didn't have the spare money, so it wouldn't be "never".

From the supply would be interesting, though.
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Evgeni Liakhovich
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fardoche wrote:

Could it be that one can sacrifice 5 VP and both dice to take a castle from the supply instead of the discarded tiles?


I've been thinking about the same thing too (while still waiting for my new boards). On one hand you'd think that this could be abused too much, but then would that really be an abuse considering how much you're paying for these castles, and that you are limited to 4 of them anyway?

Still, I think I would allow purchasing from the supply, but only when a player is obviously stuck.
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Ken Thibodeau
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I played another 2-player game last night with the new rules and I can confirm that, once again, castles were taken as soon as possible (always in the first turn of every round). None were discarded. With 5 rounds, there's 5 available castles (we only had 1 black castle), so there was 6 castles in total for the combined 8 castles spots on the 2 boards. Since 2 of the castles spots couldn't be filled, some colored regions couldn't even be started no matter how we played.

I think the new rules add an extra layer of depth but also handicap "creativity": being first on the turn order track is highly critical in order to snatch the only available castle at the beginning of each round. Then again, you must put your initial castle near blue ship spots to take advantage of that... so it scripts the game a little more.
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Werner Bär
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fardoche wrote:
With 5 rounds, there's 5 available castles (we only had 1 black castle), so there was 6 castles in total for the combined 8 castles spots on the 2 boards.

6 castle spots, after you placed your starting castle.
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Ken Thibodeau
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Yes that's it, but it's still tight. In the last round I took the castle to prevent my opponent from having it, even if I didn't need it. It allows for more screwage.

Anyways, I'm not saying it's a bad variant, just that it adds more restrictions to general gameplay and that the 5 VP + 2 dice sacrifice will never be used in 2-player games because castles are always taken early.
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Maybe I'm wrong but I remember the rules of the base game state that after each round Castle, ship and mine tiles are not removed so how can I set aside those tiles?
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Ken Thibodeau
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Technically they are removed, but immediately replaced with another identical tile. From this point of view, unused castles can be set aside for the new rules
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Olav Fakkeldij
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james_bond wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong but I remember the rules of the base game state that after each round Castle, ship and mine tiles are not removed so how can I set aside those tiles?


hèhè, you're right!devil
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Steve Duff
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And black ones are always removed regardless in the base game (you can't do the shortcut thing with those ones).
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Neil Christiansen
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I got these but have yet to test them.

It seems as if it could be pretty difficult and that this is probably not alleviated by the rule allowing one to give up their turn, 5 VPs, and pick up a discarded castle tile.

By difficult, I mean that one could end up with alomst no possible growth if the tiles they were hoping or planning for don't come up.

What would those who have played think of a variant where if no discarded castles are available one could move an existing castle from one hex to a different one in place of their die actions, costing 3 VPs?

It would not seem as valueable as adding a new castle (e.g., no extra action awarded), hence the 3 vs. 5.
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Larry Buckel
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The rules from the magazine state you can either play the boards with the original rules OR use the modified new rules.

I think I'll lean on trying it the regular way and maybe add in the trade option for both actions to get the castle tile.

Still new to this game but enjoying it a lot!
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Jeroen van der Valk
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I would assume it's possible to apply this new rule to the base game boards? Or is there a significant design difference where this could lead to problematic situations?
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Werner Bär
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jvdv wrote:
I would assume it's possible to apply this new rule to the base game boards?

No.
For all old boards, part of the area would be impossible to reach. Worst offender ist board number 7, where you could only ever place 7 (when starting south) or 9 (starting north) tiles.
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Clyde W
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I'm agreeing with Ken's analysis. Perhaps unthemaric, yes, but what if 5VP and two dice allowed you to move one of your already-built castles?
 
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Mik Svellov
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fardoche wrote:
Yes that's it, but it's still tight. In the last round I took the castle to prevent my opponent from having it, even if I didn't need it. It allows for more screwage.

Sure. But it also hurts you to have a Castle occupying one of your 3 temporary slots.

As for the new boards, there is at least one board that seemed easier, in that you only need to biuld 3 castles to reach all regions.
 
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Connor Cranston
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I read the rules quickly and thought they meant I could place a castle from my storage space on an empty castle spot in my estate that doesn't necesarily needs to be next to already placed tiles.
 
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Patrick Fournier
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Khonnor wrote:
I read the rules quickly and thought they meant I could place a castle from my storage space on an empty castle spot in my estate that doesn't necesarily needs to be next to already placed tiles.


That would be nice, but they really specify : 'all rules of CoB remain in effect'...
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Connor Cranston
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Falzir wrote:
Khonnor wrote:
I read the rules quickly and thought they meant I could place a castle from my storage space on an empty castle spot in my estate that doesn't necesarily needs to be next to already placed tiles.


That would be nice, but they really specify : 'all rules of CoB remain in effect'...



It clearly says: 'All rules remain in effect, with the following exception.'

To give up 2 dice and 5 points, just to place a castle to my estate adjacent to an already placed tile, seems a little extreme. To place that castle, without it having to be adjacent to an already placed tile in my estate seems reasonable for 2 dice and 5 points.

meeple
 
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