Mike Romeo
Canada
Chicoutimi
Quebec
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The only thing you can win in the debate are support cubes?(the support cubes dont have to pass a support check right?)
I'm a bit disapointed! First game yesterday and I was so trilled with the debate just to found out I had won 7 support cubes and my opponent 2... hmmm! So basically all that trouble for not much... 5 support cubes more then my opponent. And I had sacrificed some cards that could have help me more than other that I had played just to use them in the debate. Am I getting something wrong here? Is there another bonus to winning the debate? Are those hard won 5 support cubes really worth the trouble? Some events give equal or more than this...
Edit:Just seen the note in the rules that says that SC stays on issuesAlso, if there still is support cubes on issues when preparing the debate, they are put back in the reserve? And when you put back the issues, the first resolved issue is the least important (gives 2 support cubes to the winner and is put on the third place on the issue track) while the last resolved issue gives 4 SCubes and is put on the first place on the issue track?
Also you dont put a SCube of the player who won that issue in the debate when putting the issue back on the issue track (maybe it should be played that way :P)
Thanks a lot!
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Geoffrey Ulman
United States
Herndon
Virginia
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KingAnus3 wrote: Are those hard won 5 support cubes really worth the trouble? Some events give equal or more than this...
Well, support cubes you get are able to be placed anywhere on the board without restriction. That's pretty powerful. Most events place limits on where you can place cubes. When placing cubes manually, you've got to waste actions traveling to the location and might have to make support checks.
So you can use the debate cubes to target high value locations where it is hard for the opponent to react (CA is particularly vulnerable, for example, since you usually don't move your candidate marker out to the West, making it expensive to get cubes there).
Also, it's not just that you got 5 support cubes. You also stopped your opponent from getting 5 support cubes. So unlike an event, in some sense there's actually a total swing of 10 cubes in your example.
Also, if you don't think the debates are important, just don't focus on them. You don't have to set aside cards with your icon on them. You can use the cards you set aside to bury really good events for your opponent that you don't want them to be able to use. I think you'll find that letting your opponent win all the debate slots is pretty devastating, but ignoring the debates is certainly a viable strategy.
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Tony Bosca
United States
Warren
Michigan
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Thematically it seems unimportant but it opens your hand up to some more creative play. You can toss cards that hurt you in there. Mind you, you can play cards in support of you opponent during the debate. So through some creative card play you can basically "throw off" an issue letting them win it but making it the first issue resolved.
The cubes are pretty huge because you don't have to perform support checks or spend points traveling the country to put them down. Overall I think it feels a little anti-climactic, but we just whip right through them, once you are really familiar the rules it's almost like a little scoring round as opposed to a big ordeal.
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Tony Bosca
United States
Warren
Michigan
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ulmangt wrote: KingAnus3 wrote: Are those hard won 5 support cubes really worth the trouble? Some events give equal or more than this... Well, support cubes you get are able to be placed anywhere on the board without restriction. That's pretty powerful. Most events place limits on where you can place cubes. When placing cubes manually, you've got to waste actions traveling to the location and might have to make support checks. So you can use the debate cubes to target high value locations where it is hard for the opponent to react (CA is particularly vulnerable, for example, since you usually don't move your candidate marker out to the West, making it expensive to get cubes there). Also, it's not just that you got 5 support cubes. You also stopped your opponent from getting 5 support cubes. So unlike an event, in some sense there's actually a total swing of 10 cubes in your example. Also, if you don't think the debates are important, just don't focus on them. You don't have to set aside cards with your icon on them. You can use the cards you set aside to bury really good events for your opponent that you don't want them to be able to use. I think you'll find that letting your opponent win all the debate slots is pretty devastating, but ignoring the debates is certainly a viable strategy.
I should have waited, I like your response better. 
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Steve Bauer
United States
Gilbert
Arizona
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blakstar wrote: Thematically it seems unimportant but it opens your hand up to some more creative play. You can toss cards that hurt you in there. Mind you, you can play cards in support of you opponent during the debate. So through some creative card play you can basically "throw off" an issue letting them win it but making it the first issue resolved.
The cubes are pretty huge because you don't have to perform support checks or spend points traveling the country to put them down. Overall I think it feels a little anti-climactic, but we just whip right through them, once you are really familiar the rules it's almost like a little scoring round as opposed to a big ordeal.
Don't sell yourself short, your answer is good to.
The debates are not really about the debates there about those 5 cards you held for the debates. Did you give up 5 of your best events to ensure winning the debates. If you opponent buried 3 of your events conceding the debates but domination you in the first 5 rounds and still managed to win 1 issue, you really lost. If managed the 7 to 2 victory in the debates while not giving up any of your key events or having to play your opponents then you won big. The cubes themselves are big, allowing you to break in to carried states or spread out where needed but the opportunity cost of managing your hand is bigger.
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Todd Woodward
United States
Findlay
Ohio
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I'm a relatively new player, and I made the mistake of getting rid of cards that benefitted my opponent in my Campaign Strategy deck. I was thinking of the strategy from Twilight Struggle; use the space race to get rid of a bad event. This resulted in my opponent getting to place 9 unrestricted cubes on the board. If I could have played an entire turn without my opponent playing cards, I MIGHT have had a chance. I never came close to recovering.
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Andy Parker
United Kingdom
Reading
Berkshire
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I think the debates depends on how well you are doing with the issues in turns one to five. If you are leading throughout and getting momentum then you can put cards in the campaign strategy deck to aid you in the debates. If you're not then you sometimes have to stash damaging cards in your campaign strategy since they will affect your game for the worse. The first couple of turns (unless you get some really bad cards) few cards can really
damage your position but you can recover somewhat. Those first couple of turns you need to put some cards in to help you win one debate. You can probably lose two debates but you don;t want to lose all three. Preferable you want to win the last one but even the first and getting two cubes is better than allowing your opponent to get all nine cubes.
the debate cubes are very good mainly just to swing one state from your opponent to yours, or visa versa. For Kennedy its normally California, for Nixon it's any really, or New York if you don't have it.
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Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:17 pm
