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Subject: Comparing to Glory to Rome - worth purchase? rss

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Gustavo
Brazil
União Da Vitória
Paraná
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I have Glory to Rome and enjoy playing it with my girlfriend a lot, however sometimes we wish it was less nasty and confrontational. How is Suan Juan in this regard? Also, would it be worth purchasing San Juan if I own Glory to Rome?

Thanks!
 
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I Am Sparcatus
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Danbury
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I love San Juan, but I don't think it's too great with 2 players. It is definitely not confrontational, so if you're looking for something where all you can do to mess with the other player is choose a role they want (but next turn, they can do the same to you) or build or hide buildings you know they'll search the deck for, that's about all the interaction. But the game really only shines with 4 players, in my opinion. Many people disagree and like it quite well with 2 or 3, but I find that a major strategy (production) is not often viable with 2 or 3 players, leading to one-dimensional play a bit.
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Simon Woodward
New Zealand
Hamilton
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I think San Juan is very good with 2p. The previous poster might be right that the strategies are not balanced, I don't know, but I find it enjoyable with any number of players.
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Tom O'Keefe
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Richmond
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I've not played Glory to Rome, so it's hard for me to compare, but I will agree that San Juan is not especially confrontational. It's more of a race than a head-to-head battle.

I will put forward the opposite opinion of cannoneer, though, and say that I would only play San Juan with two. I think with more it is overlong and harder to have a concrete plan, since you are less likely to see each of the various 6 buildings during the course of the game.

With two it is a tight game that plays quickly. Pure production strategies could be less viable, but the question becomes how much you incorporate production elements into your strategy and whether you build for speed or big points.

 
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Michael Weber
Germany
Wendeburg
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With respect to your nastiness question: Yes, I'd say that San Juan is by far less "nasty" than Rome and I'd go for it as San Juan plays faster and seems to fit your interest better.
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Ben Holle
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I have not played Glory to Rome and would agree that 2-player San Juan is excellent (probably best as 2-player) and would highly recommend it. Agree on the low nastiness level too.

I think it is better with the expansion. You can usually find someone who is selling the Treasure Chest in separate pieces on ebay or elsewhere for about 10 bucks.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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I have not played GtR, but I think all the posts above summarize SJ pretty well. The "meanest" things you can do to each other are pick a role the other wanted, or try to end the game sooner than the other person had hoped. Oh, or you can build buildings that let you leach when certain roles are chosen. In other words, it's great for people who don't like to attack each other.

As for the dominant strategy in 2p: If you don't read any strategy articles, it will probably take you a bit to figure things out. Then, most likely you would zero in on one strategy as being hard to beat. Eventually (I haven't gotten there yet), you would apparently realize that a different strategy is the true unbeatable approach. Of course, within either of those strategies, there are a wide variety of tactics, so the game can still be interesting.

Another option for you would be Race for the Galaxy. At least in the base game, it is as non-confrontational as SJ. Since you already have the mechanics of GtR down, I assume it would be relatively easy to pick up RftG. The icons really aren't bad, as long as you don't have to learn the rest of the game at the same time.

Personally I prefer the simplicity of SJ over the more complex RftG, but if you're not worried about complexity, it might be worth a look. There is a free RftG AI program you can download and run on your PC to try it out.
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Gustavo
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União Da Vitória
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Thanks everybody for your replies. I think I will add San Juan to my wishlist. Seems to fit my criteria.

Thanks!
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Len
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Austin
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It seems to fit your criteria, but just know that 2-player isn't great. The production strategy (about half the game) is so inferior in 2-player games it is like losing half the game.

You'll figure this out in a few games.

SJ is decent with 3 players, and much better with four players (as someone always must play a production supporting role).
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Ben Holle
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Production in 2-player gets much better with the expansion - which adds the Harbor. This is the biggest reason I think the expansion is a must; it rounds out this strategy.

Also, 2-player is a much more tactical game. Rather then locking yourself in as a producer for the whole game you should be the producer only as long as it benefits you more than your opponent. If you have coffee or silver to their indigo go ahead and produce/trade. Once they build coffee/silver you probably want to stop unless you can +1 them with another good production building.

With the harbor you can often keep producing/trading even if they are caught up to you production-wise because you are getting an additional VP every cycle.
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I Am Sparcatus
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Danbury
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bholle wrote:
Production in 2-player gets much better with the expansion - which adds the Harbor. This is the biggest reason I think the expansion is a must; it rounds out this strategy.

Also, 2-player is a much more tactical game. Rather then locking yourself in as a producer for the whole game you should be the producer only as long as it benefits you more than your opponent. If you have coffee or silver to their indigo go ahead and produce/trade. Once they build coffee/silver you probably want to stop unless you can +1 them with another good production building.

With the harbor you can often keep producing/trading even if they are caught up to you production-wise because you are getting an additional VP every cycle.


Man, I'd love to get my hands on the expansion then.
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Len
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Agreed....if that is the case, I'd like the expansion. I thought I had read it does not fix the problem, but I will have a look at the harbor card!
 
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The harbor definitely changes the game, if you get it out in the first couple of turns a true production strategy, produce/trade can give you an extra 8-10 points. If you are running a pure production strategy, you should have plenty of cards, especially if you are using a couple of silvers. Towards the end of the game you can drop a bunch of cards in the bank for 6-8 more.

The great thing about the harbor is that it generates points at no cost. After you trade, one of your goods goes under the harbor. You still get to take the cards for that good and then put it under the harbor for a point. It's so good early, it might swing the game away from the violet strategy.

In two player, with the expansion, production can be very hard to beat. If your opponent builds a harbor, you almost have to respond with your own harbor or at least building a good production building to capitalize on his produce/trade calls.
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john m
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cannoneer wrote:
I love San Juan, but I don't think it's too great with 2 players. It is definitely not confrontational, so if you're looking for something where all you can do to mess with the other player is choose a role they want (but next turn, they can do the same to you) or build or hide buildings you know they'll search the deck for, that's about all the interaction. But the game really only shines with 4 players, in my opinion. Many people disagree and like it quite well with 2 or 3, but I find that a major strategy (production) is not often viable with 2 or 3 players, leading to one-dimensional play a bit.


I love SJ but I've never thought of the game as being confrontational at any number of players. It's more about the players own tableau. Sure you can pick something you think the other guy needs to get, but I never have had the feeling of confrontation. I like games with confrontation but just never felt it wish SJ.

The more I play it I see more luck of the draw is involved.
 
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Leonardo Martino
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Milano
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SJ is not confrontational...
but Gtr is not confrontational either
 
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