Mike Taylor
United Kingdom
chester
cheshire
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I've played this game twice now. First time was with two other people and I enjoyed it a lot. It took us a while to play the first time, possibly 3 hours or so but this was because it was a first play. When the deck got depleted we were surprised at how little the fire had spread and there were calls to play through the deck a second time (which I resisted). There was a real, "ohh... It's over?" feeling, but I put that down to a minimum player game and a limited number of strategies being executed across the board. A thoroughly enjoyable game none the less.
Lately I've been playing with a group of 5 other friends every week, slowly introducing them to more advanced games. Starting with Werewolves I think, then moving to Ticket to Ride and Settlers etc.
They came around again last night and it was time to pull out a heavier game and I was excited for a chance to play 1666 at full players.
I went through a rules explanation and some examples. This went as it usually does; looks of dumbfounded horror and confusion as I reassure them it will all click by the third go. It didn't really, it wasn't a very successful game. 2-3 of us seemed to understand the game well enough but the other 3 couldn't quite get it and unfortunately I had a bit of a cold and wasn't able to pay constant attention and advise them. They seemed to find it very difficult to attach a strategy to their understanding of the rules, often trying to make an illegal move then just aimlessly moving stuff for the sake of it after some movement rules are re-explained.
One of the girls 'got it' and really cleaned up, which I think didn't help the others much as someone soared into the lead leaving them further detached from their steak in the game.
I tried my best to advice them in strategy. "Move your land lord here and get these two Bands moving here, so next go your positioned to extinguish this fire." But the problem there is that the bands are a mutual resource and everyone just heard the strategy.
The game ended pretty fast, and again the girl who 'got it' was kind of disappointed and called to cycle through the deck again (We didn't). The others just seemed glad it was over and because most players were aimlessly moving with no real strategy and little understanding of the game, the fire hadn't spread all that much.
I really like the game! It looks really good and I'm positive there's some really good game play in there, it was just an unfortunate session. I think I'd made the mistake of playing it with too many newbies who were not only new to this game, but new to this kind of weight of game.
I often think that games like this could really benefit from a 'learn how to play game' where different elements are added every couple of rounds allowing people to process the rules and mechanics a piece at a time.
Anyone else had problems getting people on board with this game? What's the best way of coping with it?
I think I'll try an persuade a couple of them to play again in the future, maybe just a four player game. However I'm afraid they all had such a lousy time last night they wont consent to another game 
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Dan C
United States
Florida
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That's a bummer. it happened to me with shogun. Except worse...halfway through someone spilled a drink on the board and we had to start over. That was a year ago and I've yet to get to play it again.
Hopefully you'll have better luck getting another play of this one in.
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Larry Rice
United States
Irvine
California
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I played once and decided I was done. The title calls this the Great Fire of London, not the Great Spark! I want to see houses burn but you really need collaboration to get the fire burning which is hard to get when one can gain VPs and such by moving firemen.
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Chris Linneman
Canada
Vancouver
BC
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You really need to read the rules with a fine-tooth comb in this one. I think we played four times before we got the rules down right. Each time we discovered new rules that made the fire spread nastier. I suggest you re-read those puppies very carefully and try to spot anything you were doing wrong before shelving or trading the game. I consider it a very fun, tense game, that is quite light at the same time. If you know the rules well, this one should be really accessible to newer gamers. I'll try to post back here later about the rules we got wrong in case you made some of the same mistakes.
Well here's one possibility: When fire spreads to a district with trained band cone(s) that are not currently fighting fires, they immediately start fighting the newly spread fire cone(s). So as the fire spreads, it can tie up the trained bands, preventing them from moving to the spots your opponents would like them to be in.
Also, whenever a district burns down, add fire cones from the supply to match the total number of houses that were originally in the district. So if one fire cone burns down a district of 4 houses, add 3 more fire cones to the district.
And you can only put out fires if the number of trained band cones equals or exceeds the number of fire cones in a district. So it's possible for the trained bands to get tied up where they can't be of any use until more trained bands are sent to aid them.
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Steve Yates
United States
Cleveland
Ohio
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QBert80 wrote: You really need to read the rules with a fine-tooth comb in this one. I think we played four times before we got the rules down right. Each time we discovered new rules that made the fire spread nastier. I suggest you re-read those puppies very carefully and try to spot anything you were doing wrong before shelving or trading the game. I consider it a very fun, tense game, that is quite light at the same time. If you know the rules well, this one should be really accessible to newer gamers. I'll try to post back here later about the rules we got wrong in case you made some of the same mistakes.
Well here's one possibility: When fire spreads to a district with trained band cone(s) that are not currently fighting fires, they immediately start fighting the newly spread fire cone(s). So as the fire spreads, it can tie up the trained bands, preventing them from moving to the spots your opponents would like them to be in.
It is possible to tie up the trained bands, but not too often due to fire moving into their location. Because of the fire movement priority rules, in 4 plays I think I have seen one turn where it was legal to move fire into a district with a trained band cone.
QBert80 wrote: Also, whenever a district burns down, add fire cones from the supply to match the total number of houses that were originally in the district. So if one fire cone burns down a district of 4 houses, add 3 more fire cones to the district.
It's important to remember to do this. I saw this forgotten more than once, and have forgotten it myself.
If you want the fire to spread well, it helps to keep moving fire cones from Pudding Lane through the connected burning districts. If you move only these added fire cones the fire has a good chance to die out if it gets separated from Pudding Lane by a trained band containing or putting out fire in connecting districts. I pretty much always move a fire cone from Pudding Lane if it is connected by fire to the loaction I want to spread to.
QBert80 wrote: And you can only put out fires if the number of trained band cones equals or exceeds the number of fire cones in a district. So it's possible for the trained bands to get tied up where they can't be of any use until more trained bands are sent to aid them.
It is useful to do this sometimes, especially in the final turn if you aren't able to use your action points to actually add to your score.
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Richard Denning
United Kingdom
Sutton Coldfield
West Mids
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Firstly a big mistake folks often make is in set-up. You must ensure NO player pawns OR trained band cones are in the Green area around pudding lane.
Next make sure that, when you burn a district, you add enough fire cones to a district to reflect the total number of houses in it. IE Move into Guild Hall and ALL houses come off and 4 fire cones in total will be there.
Make sure also that Trained band cones do not move THROUGH districts on fire if there are UNCONTAINED fire cones in it. Deliberately we made it that these boys can get tied up very easily.
As someone said there are various rules that taken in combination ensure the fire keeps moving.
Mostly though just remember you are playing a game to beat others. If you cooperate entirely to beat the fire (which I never saw happen btw - the fire finds ways out) then still one of you will win.
You are the FIRE as well as the fire fighters and if you don't use the fire to harm and threaten your fellow players you are NOT using an asset in the game.
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Tim P.
United States
Thousand Oaks
California
Visit the Wargame Bootcamp guild
To mark the 60th Diamond Jubilee of Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of Her other Realms and Territories, Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
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rdenning wrote: Firstly a big mistake folks often make is in set-up. You must ensure NO player pawns OR trained band cones are in the Green area around pudding lane.
Next make sure that, when you burn a district, you add enough fire cones to a district to reflect the total number of houses in it. IE Move into Guild Hall and ALL houses come off and 4 fire cones in total will be there.
.....
Aha, so I did make some mistakes in my first game, no wonder the fire did not spread well until later in the game: although I did lose 10 of my houses, but that was mostly due to my colleagues generous use of gun powder.
Tim
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While sleeping, watch!
United States
Unspecified
Minnesota
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oi_you_nutter wrote: rdenning wrote: Firstly a big mistake folks often make is in set-up. You must ensure NO player pawns OR trained band cones are in the Green area around pudding lane.
Next make sure that, when you burn a district, you add enough fire cones to a district to reflect the total number of houses in it. IE Move into Guild Hall and ALL houses come off and 4 fire cones in total will be there.
..... Aha, so I did make some mistakes in my first game, no wonder the fire did not spread well until later in the game: although I did lose 10 of my houses, but that was mostly due to my colleagues generous use of gun powder. Tim
How did you get so much gunpowder? We missed the fire = number of houses burned, and only got to one or two tokens burned out the first game we played (and nothing much burned out). The second play we got it all straight and a lot of tokens came out. However both times the tower never burned, so that path to tokens was not used efficiently. Both times I had a tower card and at least two houses in the tower, so I tried to steer the fire away from it...
Also both games all colors had at least ten houses burned out, it is hard to save your houses.
I like the game once everyone knows it, Carcassone'ish weight, and like farmer wars (screw your neighbor) the whole time. I've yet to play Downfall of Pompeii thought.
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Rick Carnagey
United States
Wake Forest
North Carolina
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I made the same mistake... not adding fires to burnt districts to total the # of houses. Also was not enforcing trained bands can't move through districts with fire rule.
I am really looking forward to playing this again now as I feel I just got a slight taste of the game playing it the way we did.
I think I am really going to like this game from what I have seen so far!
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Richard Walter
United States
San Jose
California
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I played this last night with 5, first play for all (although I played 3/4 of a game solo beforehand to understand the the rules so that I could explain it to the others.)
And, we also had the issue that the fire didn't really spread much at all.
Yes, we all started outside of the green zone, but with 5 players it seemed way too easy to expand the fire to a space with 1 house near Pvdding Lane and then swoop in with a trained band and your pawn to put it out immediately. Especially since there is the incentive to put out fires to get the 2 points for the hero card.
I decided to use my actions to actively move the trained bands away from where I expanded the fire to try to get the fire going, so it didn't go completely out, but others were intentionally using cones from non-Pvdding Lane spaces to thin out the fire and it quickly got disconnected from Pvdding Lane, limiting its expansion.
As a result I ended up with the fewest extinguished fires (I had 3 and everyone else had 5-6) and ended up coming in last (*). Of the 15 bonus area cards passed out among the players, only 3 were burnt down, and so the put-out fire cones really made the difference in scoring.
At the beginning of the game, my son was pretty jazzed about the theme, but I think that he cooled off as it became apparent that it was hard to keep the fire moving. My wife and our two guests were definitely in the hunt for putting out the fire as primary objective.
About half-way through the game they realized that getting the black tokens offered the chance for points and so started moving the fire in those directions, but most of the tokens are explosives and none of them were ever used in the game, and so even that wasn't a very effective incentive.
The end result was that I think that everyone saw potential here but also thought that the game was somewhat lacking. My wife definitely viewed the fire as "the enemy" to be controlled and thought that perhaps having antagonistic sides (pro-fire vs. anti-fire) would be better than the "conflict of interest" by having the players be both the fire & the firemen.
During dinner after the game, we had some discussion about how to tweak the game to try to get it more ... interesting.
These included:
- Removing the 2 point bonus card for most fire.
- Make putting out fires only worth 1/3 of a house, rather than 1/2 a house.
- Change the mix of fire movement cards (currently they are mostly North & West) to make East easier to get to. (Two people had "The Tower" cards and coupled with the dearth of East cards, that area seems pretty easy to keep alive.)
- When a fire enters a new space, add new cones equal to the number of houses in the space (so that moving into a space with 1 house results in 2 cones there.) This would avoid the easy "expand the fire to this 1-house area and then immediately put it out" that happened in our game, but I think that this could also easily result in a seriously out-of-control fire...
- When "expanding the fire", use the incorrect rule and add new cones to every space on the board that contains an uncontrolled fire. (I actually played this wrongly on my solo-run through and so ran out of fire cones and found my mistake here on BGG's forums.) Perhaps adding 1 to every existing fire space rather than 3 total to the board.
- Maybe give out points for each house burned down by each player. (1/4 point / house?) to encourage growing the fire as well as putting them out.
I'll try to get this out again over the coming Holidays to try some of these out, but I'd like any thoughts from people about this, including rdenning  .
Or perhaps we're just not a cutthroat enough group to really play this game...
-Richard
(*) I don't mind the losing. It's the feeling that if I didn't try to help the fire along, then the game would degenerate into all 5 players hanging out next to Pvdding Lane (**) and just doing the "Expand to next to me/put out fire" loop that would be no fun at all. And that I ended up sacrificing my best interest in preventing this for the sake of fun.
(**) I really like typing "Pvdding"
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Chris Linneman
Canada
Vancouver
BC
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If you are spending your turn spread the fire one space, then using all your action points to put it out, you've more than likely gained 3 points relative to the player whose house you burned down. What do you do when all the districts adjacent to Pudding Lane are empty, though? Then you have really no opportunity for scoring points on your turn. Better would be to expand the fire toward a juicier district of one of your opponents'. Then you can score for burning down multiple houses as well as potentially a VP district. In the long run, this will be worth a lot more than simply burning down a one-house district and putting out the fire.
The other thing you want to consider is where the fire is spreading relative to your most valuable districts. If you can get the fire raging in an area with few of your houses and/or VP districts, then you have to worry less about your own areas getting burned. In short, there are long-term consequences to where the fire spreads that your group may be missing; it's more than just, "Where can I spread the fire that I can then put it out easily?"
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