Ola Mikael Hansson
United Kingdom
-
I am wanting to find out what Customizable card games are out there that might be worth looking into for me. I love the deckbuilding aspect of customizable card games, where I tweak my deck before the game and then try it out and sees how it works against the opponent's deck. On the other hand, I strongly dislike the blind buying that used to be the norm, which is why I have been on a long hiatus from CCGs and only recently got back into them. Still, if a game plays well from a small enough collection, while still offering good deckbuilding variety and flexibility, that would be workable.
What am I looking for?
Deckbuilding:
Preferably, one should be able to indulge in serious deckbuilding, and building lots of different sorts of decks, without having to spend too much of a fortune chasing rare cards. Deckbuilding is my favourite part of customizable card games, and I love trying to win in odd ways, or come up with weird combos, or build around a theme - not necessarily the most efficient decks (though I do try to build a few of those as well), but I enjoy the feeling of creativity that deckbuilding can give me.
Plays well on two players
All my gaming nowaday is exclusively with my wife, so the game needs to work well on two players, though we are quite flexible and enjoy many games that might really be better on more players.
Affordable
Either with fixed distribution (as in FFG's LCG), or where one can play well and build decks well from a smaller collection without many rares. This is, e.g., the main strike against Magic - deckbuilding in Magic tends to depend way too much on rare cards.
Available
I need to get hold of the cards relatively easily - I am not interested in watching ebay like a hawk for months in order to score the cards to start playing with.
What do I already have
I have recently been buying the FFG LCGs (A Game of Thrones, Warhammer Invasion, Call of Cthulhu, Lord of the Rings), as well as Legend of the Five Rings.
I also own various older ones - Vampire the Eternal Struggle (which I would like to get more of, but can't find places that sell it), Magic, and Wyvern being the highlights of those.
-
Drew Dallas
United States
Tennessee
-
Honestly beyond the FFG LCGs there are very few CCG type games which are still being produced that are affordable to get into.
Warlord: Saga of the Storm is a card game produced in only fixed sets which used to be produced by AEG and is now produced by Phoenix Interactive. It is similar to a LCG in its distribution now and is very fun and unique in its game play.
Elemental Clash is released in fixed starters and fat packs. I've never played it but I've heard it is fun.
Beyond those I suggest either playing paupers versions of Magic or World of Warcraft (only play with commons and uncommons that you can pick up on the cheap in bulk lots) or try out some dead CCGs which can many times be found at bargain prices online.
-
-
I would take a look at WARS if you're interesting in sci-fi themed games. The mechanics are very different than most other CCG's, the art is great, and its available for very cheap prices:
http://www.wholesalegaming.biz/wars/
-
Sebastian Blanco
United States
Lansing
Michigan
-
I can recommend Anachronism, which is a deck building ccg that plays like a miniatures game. It is easy to find (except for some of the promos, but they are easy enough to proxy) and even though a game only takes 5 minutes to play, you can set up 25-card tournament decks and have a good 30 minutes of play. The game is also entertainingly educational and there is a lot of depth and strategy to it. (there are even two PDF-only expansions available online if the seven produced sets don't offer enough different cards). Highly recommended.
-
Sebastian Blanco
United States
Lansing
Michigan
-
I forgot, the packs are marked with which cards are inside, so there is no blind buying. Last I looked, you could get complete sealed sets for around $20. there are 7 sets, so I recommend buying one or two and seeing if you like the game before getting all 7.
-
Angelo Nikolaou
Greece
Maniakoi
Kastoria
-
I second Warlord: Saga of the Storm, it's my favorite CCG. Extremely fun, great production value, easy to learn, great deckbuilding options with a huge variety of playing styles, immersive theme and affordable price. It's a true gem that very few know about.
Feel free to geekmail me about it, I used to play for 7 years competitively
-
PenumbraPenguin
Australia
Sydney
NSW
-
Go for Magic, and ignore the rares. You can get common/uncommon sets quite cheaply, and you can scratch the deckbuilding itch with some form of limited play. (Give each player some number of random cards, build decks from those, play, repeat).
I haven't played the World of Warcraft TCG much, but like Magic, common/uncommon sets are readily available due to people chasing rares. The game itself is very very very similar to Magic.
-
-
Don't ignore cheap dead CCGs. You just can't beat buying a great game, like Hecatomb, for $40 and get a box of 8 starter decks and 3 different boxes of booster packs.
Call of Cthulhu CCG (compatible with LCG, but different card back)
Game of Thrones CCG (fully compatible with LCG, same card back)
Pirates of the Spanish Main (available at Target - 20 packs $10)
Hecatomb
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Highlander
Lord of the Rings
Spycraft
Star Trek
VS (Marvel & DC)
Although you said you don't want to get caught up chasing rare cards, they're truly not an issue for you if you're playing with your wife. If you want to go to a tournament or game shop and play against people who have spent over $100 to build a single competitive deck, you're not going to win many games with a deck full of commons. I'm not aware of a single decent CCG that requires rare cards to be fun. Since you're only playing against your wife, you're both building decks from the same pool of cards. It's not as if one of you has a $100 deck and the other doesn't.
-
Hal Fisher
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
-
I would recommend World Of Warcraft CCG. It's still seems to be played in a lot of places still and can be found for pretty cheap. Lots of different ways it can be played (normal 1 vs 1, raids, grand melee etc...) which can be lots of fun. You don't need to be into WOW to enjoy it, but it helps for some of the lore references.
-
James Lin
United States
Spring
Texas
-
I just got my hands on a starter box for The Spoils. It was revived recently, so hopefully it makes a comeback!
-
Brian Cox
United States
Sugar Land
Texas
-
unic wrote: What do I already have
I have recently been buying the FFG LCGs (A Game of Thrones, Warhammer Invasion, Call of Cthulhu, Lord of the Rings), as well as Legend of the Five Rings.
I also own various older ones - Vampire the Eternal Struggle (which I would like to get more of, but can't find places that sell it), Magic, and Wyvern being the highlights of those.
I'm really not trying to be that guy, but you just listed eight CCG's that you already have. Additionally, most of those listed are still going strong. And from my experience, there's not too much out there better than the games you already own.
If it were me, I'd pick one of the games I already have that I like the most and go with that one. Then again, I am a habitual collector, and I get the impression that you may be as well. If that's the case, I wish you luck in your continual quest for the ultimate collection for infinite deckbuilding options 
-
Andy Stout
United States
La Jolla
CA
-
PenumbraPenguin wrote: Go for Magic, and ignore the rares. You can get common/uncommon sets quite cheaply, and you can scratch the deckbuilding itch with some form of limited play. (Give each player some number of random cards, build decks from those, play, repeat).
I'd repeat this. It's one thing if you're trying to get into tournament Magic (or even just playing against strangers at the store); it's quite another if you've got a controlled environment like playing with your wife. In that case: why would you need to buy the expensive cards???!?
-
David Boeren
United States
Marietta
Georgia
-
unic wrote: What do I already have
I have recently been buying the FFG LCGs (A Game of Thrones, Warhammer Invasion, Call of Cthulhu, Lord of the Rings), as well as Legend of the Five Rings.
I also own various older ones - Vampire the Eternal Struggle (which I would like to get more of, but can't find places that sell it), Magic, and Wyvern being the highlights of those.
So, what's wrong with what you've got? I think you already have everything that I'd recommend and more.
Netrunner would be a good one if the reprint is successful, otherwise it can be hard to find but well worth the trouble.
If you can tell us what niche you're trying to fill that your existing games don't then maybe we can help.
-
Ola Mikael Hansson
United Kingdom
-
I've had a few halfwritten responses to the last few posts, but find it hard to express well my answers and feelings... but here is another attempt.
dboeren wrote: So, what's wrong with what you've got? I think you already
have everything that I'd recommend and more.
[...]
If you can tell us what niche you're trying to fill that your existing games don't then maybe we can help.
What's wrong with what I already have? Mostly nothing - I can point to minor flaws in individual games, but then, any new game would likely bring its own small flaws and pet peeves to the table as well. What I am looking for is endless variety - seeing new interactions, or new takes on familiar mechanics.
In magic terms (see http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/... and http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/...), I am a Johnny with a bit of a Spike element - I want to find the odd interactions, build my own take on a deck archetype or come up with rogue ideas, take a "useless card" and somehow make it the center of a deck. But at the same time, I want that deck to be capable of winning, perhaps not at top tournament level, but at casual local level. I also want decks and games that reward player skill during the game, not just in deckbuilding - I want to feel that skillful choices during the game are an important factor in winning, or when losing, I want to be able to think either that I should have made different decisions, or tweaked my deck slightly different. I am most definitely a Melvin - I am intrigued by the underlying structure, the framework beneath the individual cards that makes the game work. I like structure and interdependency and clever card interactions. I am much more focused on game mechanisms and rule structure over flavour and theme.
But Magic is not enough. While I admire the creativity of WotC in coming up with new twists (some of them better than others), it is limited by mostly staying within its own basic framework.
Variety is the spice of life. Both in what mechanisms the game uses, and in what card pool is available and what decks are viable. I want to experience that variety, see different kinds of takes of what is possible in a customizable card game, see different kinds of decks.
For example, in Magic, the (main) goal is to reduce your opponent to 0 life. Vampire adds the twist that your life is also your main resource used to bring cards into play. Warhammer Invasion has the twist that you have three life totals (one for each zone) and need to reduce two of them to 0. Various ccgs, none of which I owned at the time of the original post, uses the twist that your deck is your life (Harry Potter, Battletech, Wars). All these are twists on the basic mechanism of reducing your opponent to 0 life.
On the other hand, there are those ccgs where the goal is something different. Or where there are multiple goals possible (I know Magic has various winning conditions... but L5R has them built in at a more fundamental level, in my opinion.)
Or look at something like drawing cards. Magic lets you draw 1 card per turn, which means cards are a very limited and valuable resource. On the other end, Middle-Earth lets you refill your hand every turn, which means card flow and not getting your hand clogged is important instead. FFG seems to go somewhere in the middle - a fixed draw, but more than a single card, which means that while cards are still a valuable resource, it's not as extreme as in Magic. Games with the deck as your life introduce the balance that when you are drawing cards to give you more resources, you are also reducing your own life. Again, all different twists on the fundamental concept of drawing cards.
This is why part of why I am looking for additional good ccgs - to see new takes on familiar mechanisms, or new combinations of ideas, or how a familiar idea can be twisted around in a new way.
fuzzydice82 wrote: I'm really not trying to be that guy, but you just listed eight CCG's that you already have. Additionally, most of those listed are still going strong. And from my experience, there's not too much out there better than the games you already own. [...] I wish you luck in your continual quest for the ultimate collection for infinite deckbuilding options
I am getting towards the point where I think I have tried most good ccgs out there (as well as quite a few not so good ones). Still, with dead ccgs often being available cheap, I am intrigued to see what I might have missed.
The whole "infinite deckbuilding options" part drives me also - I don't believe a single game (even one with as big a card pool as Magic) provides infinite options. And even between different decks, there are common themes forced upon them by the underlying basic structure of the game... whereas in going to a completely different game, I have to consider new aspects, and some of those themes common to Magic decks are very different or not present at all, forcing me to approach it all from a new angle.
dragonstout wrote: I'd repeat this. It's one thing if you're trying to get into tournament Magic (or even just playing against strangers at the store); it's quite another if you've got a controlled environment like playing with your wife. In that case: why would you need to buy the expensive cards???!?
The problem with Magic specifically is two-fold: I played it a lot back in the day (at one point, had most of the power nine, complete set of revised, etc.), and am too aware of what I am missing out on (and lots of the more interesting / complicated / weird cards, due to design philosophy, are rare). Further, there is such a plethora of good quality Magic information and articles easily available on-line, that I can't help myself... I end up reading and exposing myself to the knowledge what I would be missing out on. (Still, I have been unable to resist the temptation, and have picked up a couple of Innistrad boxes...)
-
Andy Stout
United States
La Jolla
CA
-
unic wrote:
The problem with Magic specifically is two-fold: I played it a lot back in the day (at one point, had most of the power nine, complete set of revised, etc.), and am too aware of what I am missing out on (and lots of the more interesting / complicated / weird cards, due to design philosophy, are rare). Further, there is such a plethora of good quality Magic information and articles easily available on-line, that I can't help myself... I end up reading and exposing myself to the knowledge what I would be missing out on. (Still, I have been unable to resist the temptation, and have picked up a couple of Innistrad boxes...)
Do you like sealed deck play? For a lower price than the cost of those two Innistrad boxes, you could have (like me) bought an entire Innistrad set, along with sets of commons & uncommons (actually I have extra sets of C's and U's now, if you want to buy them off me instead of eBay), and then play "fake sealed", giving you and your wife each 60 random commons, 18 uncommons, and 6 rares (it's slightly more complicated than that with Innistrad, but it's easy to fix). You can let your Spike side cut loose, there's definitely a little bit of Johnny in it, and you're not "missing out" on anything (well, you're missing out on "constructed"). If your wife is new to Magic and you think she might be scared of deckbuilding on her own, then my new favorite way to teach is:
Each of you get a pack (or a fake pack). Use all those cards plus three of each land. Play a match. No deckbuilding involved, no mana-screw (plenty of mana-flood, though), and she gets a sample of each color.
Then add a pack, and now both of you have to make 40-card decks. This is perfect because after the first match she's probably a little annoyed by the mana-flood, so she'll be happy to reduce the amount of mana; and she probably also noticed a few cards that sucked, and she can take those out. Very easy deckbuilding since it's just "which 5 of these 28 cards should I remove?" Then play a match, add a pack, play, etc. until you're up to 6 packs and playing a normal sealed deck match.
Totally eases people into deckbuilding without scaring them off by having them make a lot of decisions before they know how to play.
And I also think it's important to have some very light deckbuilding (like this) early on when learning Magic, as that is a BIG appeal of the game which is lost when playing preconstructed decks. My wife didn't give a shit about Magic when I made decks for her, and it became her favorite game very quickly once she was making her own decks in sealed games.
-
David Boeren
United States
Marietta
Georgia
-
Thank for the added description. From what you said, I'd definitely try to get your hands on Netrunner, it's got some really different element in it that I think you'll enjoy.
I've heard good things about Spoils. Maybe check out UFS? I believe it's dead now and should be available fairly cheaply.
-
Ola Mikael Hansson
United Kingdom
-
dragonstout wrote: Do you like sealed deck play?
Short answer: No, not really.
Long answer: While I can enjoy it as an occasional diversion (I had a draft cube with lots of powerful cards long before I had heard it called that, and we did various forms of 2/3/4 player drafts... a friend had a 4x Common/Uncommon set from one of the blocks which we also drafted with at times), it does not for me scratch the itch that deck construction from a big card pool does. I am in Magic terms definitely a Constructed player, whereas the various Limited formats feel... too limited.
Still, before buying those boxes, I looked at picking up a complete playset of commons / uncommons for Innistrad at a reasonable price as one alternative... but decided not to go for it.
As for my wife, she doesn't mind deckbuilding - it's more a matter of limited time for her. In Magic, she often ends up playing a pre-constructed deck (I have a lot of the various World Championship decks they released for a while, as well as the new Event decks), but for other games, it varies.
-
Drew Dallas
United States
Tennessee
-
dboeren wrote: Maybe check out UFS? I believe it's dead now and should be available fairly cheaply.
Unless it happened recently it is still alive.
-
-
unic wrote: Still, with dead ccgs often being available cheap, I am intrigued to see what I might have missed.
Another thing to keep in mind about the dead CCGs is that they are out of print and won't last forever. They were overproduced in the heyday of CCGs and that's why they're inexpensive now. In the few years since I started buying them, some good ones have already transitioned from cheap to expensive and harder to find (7th Sea, Star Wars, etc).
You can look at reviews here to find out if they have a different kind of gameplay than what you're used to. It's really hard to beat getting a box of starters and boosters to try out a CCG for $20-$30 total. You certainly should give Hecatomb a try. It's fun just seeing the plastic pentagram cards with see-thru borders for building monsters with combined capabilities.
-
Brent Bartlett
United States
Bellevue
Washington
-
I highly recommend The Spoils as well. It has a very deep and strategic combat system that I haven't seen in a CCG before. In my opinion, it's the best CCG in print.
-
|
|
