James
United States
Midlothian
Virginia
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I know that the Miskatonic rules have you play with all the included Mythos cards; if a gate location shown is that of an expansion board not in play, then the gate opens in the pictured Arkham location instead. My question is this: has playing that way worked for everyone? Have any of you shuffled out the Miskatonic Mythos cards for boards not in play?
I've heard that Miskatonic really increases the activity on expansion boards which sounds great. However, if I choose to play without the Innsmouth board, for example, I would be concerned that all the new Innsmouth locations defaulting to Arkham locations would just retilt the balance back. It would diminish the impact of the new cards in the first place; we'd still have games where there was little necessity to leave Arkham for Dunwich.
I'm interested in hearing if other people have found this to be an issue and, if so, if they've removed/ignored those dual gate Mythos cards. If I've gotten something wrong, here I'd be happy to be corrected, too!
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it's pronounced "em cee crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
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I play "vanilla" MH I have noticed that Dunwich (the only board expansion I've played with MH) is more active. I haven't analysed the new card distribution but if MH adds (say) 30 double gate mythos, each of which has Arkham + Expansion and there are 10 for each expansion then you've added 10 extra gate openings for the expansion and 20 for Arkham. This will take the count from 36 in 103 to 46 in 113 (for Dunwich). That's a 33% boost to expansion Mythos, but only 10% overall.
I think your concerns are unfounded and that you should play with MH as intended (after all, MH - at least in part - is intended to fix dilution issues)
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Tibs
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
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Think of it this way. Whether or not you use the Innsmouth board when playing with the MH expansion, the frequency of Dunwich gates will be completely unchanged. If you're content with news about how MH handled dilution with its cards, then there's no reason to remove any of them.
Of course, you can totally remove the non-Dunwich ones to maximize Dunwich activity, but you might wind up having a hellish time. I'm sure that all the cards were designed to be used together.
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James
United States
Midlothian
Virginia
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Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I have no doubt that MH was designed to be played with all the Mythos cards - and by people much more experienced and more knowledgeable about the game mechanics than I. If not, I would have just made the switch and not given it a second thought.
Here's the deal. The base game has 67 Mythos cards - all Arkham locations. Add in a small box expansion (ex. Lurker) and you get 22 - all Arkham. Dunwich itself has quite a few for Arkham. Of the 43 Mythos cards in MH the following number apply to Innsmouth:
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): 21
with
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal): 15
for Dunwich. I get that I'll see Dunwich locations with the same frequency; it just seems that the double gate cards would open up yet more gates in Arkham compared with Dunwich. Gates popping up with greater frequency in Arkham would allow a greater opportunity to seal six without ever leaving; the only thing that would then get me to go to Dunwich would be the Dunwich Horror threat (is that the only reason others go?). Granted, if it really bothered me I wouldn't add in a small box expansion (with only Arkham locations). I was just wondering if I were the only one thinking about this. If so, yes, it might be that my concerns are unfounded. Thanks again.
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Tibs
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
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Brother Jim wrote: Gates popping up with greater frequency in Arkham would allow a greater opportunity to seal six without ever leaving
You gotta understand what this means, though. The chances of getting no gates in Dunwich in a Dunwich-only game is very, very, very small. Adding the whole MH set will increase this chance to very, very small. My point is that the effect can be largely disregarded, especially considering how nasty the MH cards can be.
This reminds me of Dam's point against Kingsport: it adds a fifth elder sign, so now you have a chance to get FIVE elder signs in a game instead of FOUR! Of course, this is completely fallacious, because the chances we're talking about are ridiculously low. Rather, since KH adds so many NON-Elder Signs, the chances of getting NONE in a game is actually lower than without.
Your point isn't this illogical, of course, but I can at least give empirical evidence that MH only improves the game: in my last two ALL-EXPANSION games, Two and four gates opened in Dunwich. The Horror awoke once with the herald and once on its own. Statistically, with every expansion, the chances of a Dunwich or Innsmouth gate are half than with either expansion on its own. That's pretty good.
Of course, I got killed both games with a total of FIVE rifts opening...
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Brian Mc Cabe
United States
Arizona
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Brother Jim wrote: I know that the Miskatonic rules have you play with all the included Mythos cards; if a gate location shown is that of an expansion board not in play, then the gate opens in the pictured Arkham location instead. My question is this: has playing that way worked for everyone? Have any of you shuffled out the Miskatonic Mythos cards for boards not in play?
I've heard that Miskatonic really increases the activity on expansion boards which sounds great. However, if I choose to play without the Innsmouth board, for example, I would be concerned that all the new Innsmouth locations defaulting to Arkham locations would just retilt the balance back. It would diminish the impact of the new cards in the first place; we'd still have games where there was little necessity to leave Arkham for Dunwich.
I'm interested in hearing if other people have found this to be an issue and, if so, if they've removed/ignored those dual gate Mythos cards. If I've gotten something wrong, here I'd be happy to be corrected, too!
I've found that with the small box expansions there are tons of monster surges on the big four; there are also more bounces and gate bursts. I've had quite a few games where as many as four of the base-board gates never opened once.
This has a number of effects:
1) It's necessary to seal the big four or you'll have so many monsters entering Arkham that eventually there will be so many that are unbeatable that you won't be able to do anything at all.
2) If you get three gate bursts, that's nine seals. You probably aren't going to win.
3) A lot of the games are extended. Before MH, my turn-per-game average was between thirteen and sixteen. I'm getting more in the twenty-to-thirty range and quite a few over thirty.
4) If the monsters are softballs and you aren't getting bursts, you'll be stuck on under five seals. The other gates just refuse to open any more. Sealing it again isn't going to count against the six needed at game start; the burst just resets the clock.
I'm only speaking from the experience of having played MH solo. Maybe four minds can get around these effects, where my single (brain-celled) mind can't.
I leave them in, anyway. They add a lot to the game, and I can't see not playing with them.
The expansion boards are problematical. Some games have no activity; others have so much that it isn't worth the trip. With Innsmouth especially, Martial Law is declared pretty quickly and it's hard to go up there having to pass all of those evade checks.
Brian
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it's pronounced "em cee crispy"
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
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apatheticexecutioner wrote: This has a number of effects:
1) It's necessary to seal the big four or you'll have so many monsters entering Arkham that eventually there will be so many that are unbeatable that you won't be able to do anything at all.
2) If you get three gate bursts, that's nine seals. You probably aren't going to win. In response to this situation, I've been considering reversing my normal strategy of Sealing the Big Four and only Sealing "minor" Gates. This reduces the likelyhood that you'll waste Clues on a Seal that Bursts, but does mean that you will have to keep an eye open for a runaway Terror Level. Of course, with >4 Investigators this is easier to manage. There is also the risk that you won't get enough non-Big-Four Gates opening before the Doom Track fills - but you might increase the chances that you'll get an All Gates Closed win.
Has anyone given this approach any thought (or even tried it out)? I know it sounds a little counter-intuitive, but I just wonder...
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Bob T
United States
Mantua (near Woodbury)
New Jersey
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mccrispy wrote: apatheticexecutioner wrote: This has a number of effects:
1) It's necessary to seal the big four or you'll have so many monsters entering Arkham that eventually there will be so many that are unbeatable that you won't be able to do anything at all.
2) If you get three gate bursts, that's nine seals. You probably aren't going to win. In response to this situation, I've been considering reversing my normal strategy of Sealing the Big Four and only Sealing "minor" Gates. This reduces the likelyhood that you'll waste Clues on a Seal that Bursts, but does mean that you will have to keep an eye open for a runaway Terror Level. Of course, with >4 Investigators this is easier to manage. There is also the risk that you won't get enough non-Big-Four Gates opening before the Doom Track fills - but you might increase the chances that you'll get an All Gates Closed win. Has anyone given this approach any thought (or even tried it out)? I know it sounds a little counter-intuitive, but I just wonder...
I used this strategy to beat Atlach Nacha (the spidery Old One who's Web causes Gate Bursts every time) with only 3 Investigators, and without the help of Kingsport's Great Seal. Sealed only the 'minor' Gates when able and sat on the big ones till everyone was ready to close them all at once.
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