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Ian Johnston
Canada
Kingston
Ontario
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1. Militia Festival. It says to discard all Militia cards in play BUT militia are removed from stakes after the resolution phase anyway so is this redundant text?
2. Festival of Lanterns. How does this work? I understand you can each select a card then simultaneously turn them face up, but how do you simultaneously place them? What about cards played face down? This just sounds chaotic. Any advice?
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Ian Johnston
Canada
Kingston
Ontario
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In regards to Militia. Page 14, which deals with Militia specifically, indicates that they act as an agent only for the round and are returned to the militia pile after the resolution phase.
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Evan S
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
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qwertywraith wrote: In regards to Militia. Page 14, which deals with Militia specifically, indicates that they act as an agent only for the round and are returned to the militia pile after the resolution phase.
I read the rule the same way as you do: when the resolution phase comes, they go back to the pile. The rules say nothing about them only going back if the stake is resolved in favor of a player but simply "at the end of the resolution phase". That is the way most people interpret it (see this thread).
However, I didn't even make it through one game before I house-ruled it to 'stay until stake is resolved' otherwise militia hardly ever are worth bothering with.
I had argued that if the intent of the militia is to make it so most of the time there are no completely worthless cards in your hand, making them go back to the pile after every resolution phase only every now and then accomplishes that.
Now reading the Militia Festival card, that makes me think it is just a case of a poorly written rule. That they are meant to stay until the stake goes away otherwise the milita festival card makes no sense at all.
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Evan S
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
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Orgon wrote: qwertywraith wrote: In regards to Militia. Page 14, which deals with Militia specifically, indicates that they act as an agent only for the round and are returned to the militia pile after the resolution phase. you are right that page 14 deals with Militia and refers to "after the resolution phase" which is dealt with page 8. The bottom right of page 8 presents 3 cases, in the first two the rules clearly states "All other cards in the District are sent to their respective Discard Piles". The last case reads: "All cards in the disctrict stay faceup". That woudkl include militia cards. Anyway, in all cases, commomn sense should prevails! +o
Note it says "for the round" and "At the end of the resolution phase, return all Militia". Not 'if someone successfully claims the stake...'. That is, it is the end of the phase that triggers their going back not whether someone was able to claim the stake or not.
The rules are saying they only last one round and go back at the end of the resolution phase whether the stake was successfully claimed or not.
Page 8 does not apply because because it is talking about how things work in the base rules (i.e., no Militia). The rules for adding in militia say they go back at the end of the resolution phase. And the Milita rules also say they act as an agent for the guild "for the round" not 'until the stake is resolved'.
I don't like it and I've house ruled it because that is lame but unfortunately that's what the printed rules say.
The Militia Festival just convinces me they did a bad job of writing the rule and that isn't how it is supposed to work. Unfortunately, that's the way it's written.
It most certainly is not common sense to interpret "for the round" to mean 'until the stake is resolved even if it takes more than one round' when round is explicitly defined earlier in the rules as Intrigue Phase + Resolution Phase.
I am not playing that way but I call it what it is: a house rule (at least until there is Errata or a FAQ saying the printed rules are wrong).
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Evan S
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
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Orgon wrote: Wow! Must be fun to play with you! Do you stand up and shout "Cut his head!" when someone does not follow the rules to the letter? 
Read again this time for comprehension.
I said the exact opposite: that I DON'T play the way the rules are written precisely because I don't like the rule and think it is more fun to play not following that rule to the letter.
You were saying playing with militia possibly staying more than one round is what the "common sense" interpretation is when clearly it is not at all the way the rules are written. That is what I was reacting to. I think you should play that way but don't say it's what the rules say because it is not.
Again, I recommend NOT following the rules but house ruling it and playing in the way I think is more fun. How you got I want people to follow the rules to the letter out of that is beyond me.
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Jake Waltier
United States
Seattle
Washington
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Orgon wrote: Calm down we are here to enjoy ...
But what you said before made no sense. What you said was not fun or funny, it just looked like you had not read what he wrote.
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Evan S
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
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Orgon wrote: Calm down we are here to enjoy ...
You were the one that started talking about me as a person: "You must be...".
Personal attacks like that are neither calm nor fun.
I suggest you take your own advice before pointing a finger at others.
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Ian Johnston
Canada
Kingston
Ontario
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Ooookaaay...
Back to rules. I have a solution to the Festival of Lanterns. Each player places the card they want to play facedown, then places a die under his or her hand indicating which stake the card will affect. All players reveal the card and the die simultaneously. You number the stakes from 1-5 (with 6 reserved for cards that don't affect a particular stake). There is still some ambiguity, but if a player plays an agent it is obvious. A relic might bribe or be discarded to hire a militia. A location may affect a stake and then another but at least the first stake is declared.
As for the militia festival I am torn. Leaving militia on a stake does make them better, but not by much. However, the new rules (in particular guild leaders) make me think they were meant to only stay for the round. So I'm going to play that they do return every round as written in the militia rules and assume the Militia Festival is a misprint based on an earlier ruleset (I think the original game had them remain until the stake was won but I'm too lazy to get my copy right now).
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Evan S
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
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qwertywraith wrote: ...
As for the militia festival I am torn. Leaving militia on a stake does make them better, but not by much.
Actually, leaving for more than one round makes them significantly better.
Without that, it seemed like there was less than a 50% chance they were of any use. In a game where you have a hand of only four cards, having one useless card (e.g., relic but no bribable personalities) and having the militia also be useless because it won't get resolved this round is bad. Having two cards in your hand like that is devastating.
Keeping them out until the stake resolves makes milita useful about 95% of the time instead of less than half. The 5% is because ever now and then, all six will be in play and so there isn't one available (happens about twice a game in my games).
That is quite a significant difference.
Quote: However, the new rules (in particular guild leaders) make me think they were meant to only stay for the round. So I'm going to play that they do return every round as written in the militia rules and assume the Militia Festival is a misprint based on an earlier ruleset (I think the original game had them remain until the stake was won but I'm too lazy to get my copy right now).
What do you see that leads you to conclude the card is the misprint and not that the rules were mistranslated?
Since it seems the purpose of militia is to try and make it so you don't have useless cards in your hand, I would be inclined to think that the card is correct and its the rules that are wrong. Especially if even that is what is meant it is badly written. The way it is written (leave after the resolution phase) it could be interpreted that if a stake goes away during the intrigue phase (e.g., bribed personality) the militia stays there until the intrigue phase. It's just sloppy rules writing either way.
A one sentence card is easier to translate well than a rules section. I would lean toward the rule being written wrong as I don't see any evidence to indicate it is the card that is wrong.
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Ian Johnston
Canada
Kingston
Ontario
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Well, I revisited the 1st ed rulebook and the Militia rules are ambiguous there as well. I thought it was clear they remained until the stake was won but re-reading it actually makes it unclear.
My main reason for thinking that Militia DO return to the militia deck (besides the rules on page 14) regardless of whether the stake is won or not is the guild leaders that allow you to search the militia deck. Being able to place a 2 at will is not a bad ability, but it is significantly worse if you cannot do it every round.
What I like about the militia returning is it gives players who use the guild leader the choice of grabbing the captains early (before their opponent) or playing cards to try and scare opponents off stakes they want. It also gives other players more incentive to try and tie the stake since they will gain an advantage in the next round.
Anyway, the events feel more like an afterthought (much like the objectives) added to the core game without too much work put in them.
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Every Scar
Hungary
Budapest
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One way a Militia card can be on the table after a Resolution Phase is through a special ability card (the "E" card) of certain guilds - which allow the player to snag any militia that is being returned to the militia deck and place it as theirs. We usually do this right after Resolution, and thus the Event card would make these cards disappear.
Actually, I think the more important effect of the Event card is to stop the recruitment of militia for a round. The fact that it occasionally does away with a few cards at the beginning of the round is more of a minor effect.
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Alessandro Maggi
Italy
Rome
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everyscar wrote: One way a Militia card can be on the table after a Resolution Phase is through a special ability card (the "E" card) of certain guilds - which allow the player to snag any militia that is being returned to the militia deck and place it as theirs. We usually do this right after Resolution, and thus the Event card would make these cards disappear.
Actually, I think the more important effect of the Event card is to stop the recruitment of militia for a round. The fact that it occasionally does away with a few cards at the beginning of the round is more of a minor effect.
+1 for this answer, this is also the way I was playing it. Nevertheless, going strictly by the rules this would be not correct. The thing is the power of the guild's master is being used "during" the resolution phase, and allows the assignment of the militia card to another district immediately (and still during resolution). Thus, if the militia rule is correct, the "stolen" militia would still return to its pile at the end of the resolution (so drawing the mentioned event would still find no militia cards in play).
I think that things like "festival of lanterns" are the marks of a game that was not designed for tight competitive games. In the games I've played, each turn in a "lantern's round" we set aside the card to play, and once everyone was ready we placed them facedown in the desired district. Then we flipped over the cards where required.
No problems have ever raised, but even though I can imagine that someone could change his mind on the last instant I think that given the lower amount of information at your disposal the event function is still fulfilled.
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