Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
France
Unspecified
Unspecified
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Hi there !
I've played my first game of Maria a few days ago. Apart from having made more strategical and tactical mistakes than I can record  , I have a question that doesn't seem to be answered explicitly in the rules.
Do negotiations take place between players or between powers ?
For instance, can France give a subsidy to Prussia and in exchange ask the Prag. Army to take and discard a political card ?
If the answer is no, can the Prag. Army give a subsidy to Austria and in exchange ask Austria to do something that has clearly nothing to do with the Prag. Army and which only purpose is to give an advantage to Prussia ? Where is the limit ?
In other words :
- Can France indirectly negotiate with the Prags by giving a subsidy to Prussia ?
- Can Prussia indirectly negotiate with Austria by giving a subsidy via the Prags ?
I would say no for thematic reasons. If you give something to a power A, I can't see how you could ask something in return to a power B that has nothing to do with power A.
Thanks !
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Fabian Mainzer
Germany
Bonn
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All the things you mentioned are perfectly legal
And it is not as a-thematic as you think. The British (Pragmatics) frequently pressured Austria to give up on Silesia so the war effort could be concentrated on the perceived main enemy, France. There was little sympathy for the fight for a faraway duchy of little importance in the global war against the Bourbons.
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
France
Unspecified
Unspecified
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Yes, the Prags - Austria works well actually, because the deal stays between the same powers : Prags pay Austria in exchange of some Austria behavior.
The France - Prussia - Prags is weirder, because France pays Prussia in exchange of some Prags behavior. The deal isn't limited to the 2 powers making the subsidy contract.
However, I feel like forbidding this would be too complicated.
A thematic explanation could be that the 2 parts of the agreement are actually 2 separate events. For instance, on one side France just decides to be generous with Prussia, and on the other side Prags are just crap at politics and doesn't seize the opportunity to weaken France. Nothing related.
To answer my original question : negotiations take place between players, note between powers.
Thanks !
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IMHO negotiation isn't limited to power-to-power, it seems very restrictive.
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Patrick Twitchell
United States
Ayer
Massachusetts
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I'm sorry, I cannot answer your specific question, but I'm sure Richard Sivel, the designer, will weigh in, as he frequents this discussion board.
However, this is forbidden per the rules.
tublefou wrote: - Can Prussia indirectly negotiate with Austria by giving a subsidy via the Prags ?
Prussia cannot give the Prag. Army a subsidy because they are enemies.
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
France
Unspecified
Unspecified
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Desiderata wrote: However, this is forbidden per the rules. tublefou wrote: - Can Prussia indirectly negotiate with Austria by giving a subsidy via the Prags ? Prussia cannot give the Prag. Army a subsidy because they are enemies.
That's why I said via the Prags, i.e. give a subsidy to Austria using the Pragmatic Army.
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richard sivel
Germany
berlin
Unspecified
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Quote:
Prussia cannot give the Prag. Army a subsidy because they are enemies.
That is correct.
HOWEVER, the question and example was a different case. The question was: Can the Prussians say, "Dear Austria, please give up the protection of Glatz so that I can conquer it. If you do, my uncle in London (i.e. the Pragmatic Army) will pay you a subsidy."
And that is perfectly legal.
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The same is true for France: "Dear Prussia, please convince your uncle in London (i.e. the Pragmatic Army) not to attack me for 2 turns. If you succeed I will pay you 2 turns a subsidy."
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Note: King George was indeed Frederick's uncle.
Hope that helps
p.s.: And yes, Fabian has correctly pointed out that historically the British had put pressure on Austria to make peace with Prussia (and give up Silesia) and threatened to shorten/cancel the subsidy contract.
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Patrick Twitchell
United States
Ayer
Massachusetts
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tublefou wrote: Desiderata wrote: However, this is forbidden per the rules. tublefou wrote: - Can Prussia indirectly negotiate with Austria by giving a subsidy via the Prags ? Prussia cannot give the Prag. Army a subsidy because they are enemies. That's why I said via the Prags, i.e. give a subsidy to Austria using the Pragmatic Army.
Okay, I misunderstood your statement.
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
France
Unspecified
Unspecified
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Thanks Richard !
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