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Subject: Played Tools wrong for the first few games..... rss

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Matt Jensen
United States
Bountiful
Utah
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So... I've been enjoying this game. After playing with my wife twice last night we are disecting the game a bit and come up with the challenge of the turn order - 1A, 1B, 1C. We both agree that it would be nice if we could hire, train, move workers after we purchased tools....

surprise

I knew I should have looked on the geek for clarification.... We have been playing where those two phases are independent of each other and can't be changed in order. DOH!@! So, it didn't change the game so much as just slowed things down a bit over time. We still enjoyed the game but I think instantaneous tool/training/hiring will make quite a bit of a difference going forward.

 
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James Stevenson
United States
Pennsylvania
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Unless I am mistaken, it sounds like you correctly played it the first few games, and are currently playing it wrong.

My understanding of the rules is that you must complete the "train and move workers" phase, before moving onto purchasing tools. If I am wrong please link to me to something saying otherwise.
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Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
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Something seems to be off here...

Suppose on the same turn you:
A) Trained a worker (cost 2)
B) Employed the worker in farming (cost 5, +2 Production, +1 VP).

Net effect: cost 7; +2 Production; +1 VP.

If you instead:
A) Upgraded a Hunter to a Farmer (Cost 5, +1 Prod., no VPs, Hunter tool).
B) Trained a worker (cost 2)
C) Employed the worker as a hunter (Cost 0, tool used, +1 Prod, +1 VP).

This has exactly the same net effect: cost 7, +2 Production, +1 VP.

Upgrading, to create a tool, has no effect unless the worker is trained and employed on a *later* turn.

Upgrading on turn N and training a new worker on turn N+1 for the old job, allows you to gain partial benefits from the upgraded worker on turn N. You do it when you can't afford the full price of both training and employing a worker in the new job or when you don't have any workers left.

Similarly, if you, on the same turn:
A) Trained a worker (cost 2)
B) Employed a worker in hunting (cost 2, +1 Production, +1 VP)

This is the exactly the same as if you, hypothetically:
A) Bought a Hunter tool (cost 2, no effect).
B) Trained a worker (cost 2)
C) Employed the worker as a hunter (Cost 0, tool used, +1 Prod., +1 VP)

The effects are exactly the same. Tool-buying in advance allows a player to avoid storage limits. That's all. That's why it occurs at the end of a player's turn.

Why do you think it would make a large difference to your games if tool buying occurred earlier?
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Paul Oakley
United Kingdom
York
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I think my group played this wrong too. What we did was, for example:

1.b. Train worker (cost 2), no tools available so cannot employ him yet.
1.c. Buy Hunter tools (cost 2). Cannot move worker to use tose tools anymore as 1.b. has passed.

Next turn:

1.b. Move trained worker to hunting grounds to use tools bought at the end of the last turn (+1 Prod, +1 VP).


From reading this, it seems we don't have to wait between turns to use those tools? We can instantaneously buy tools and move a trained worker there to use them... Then buy more tools with spare money to stop waste when we produce. In my mind this means you can do 1.c. -> 1.b -> 1.c. in the same turn, but if that's how it is, then that's how I will play in future!
 
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Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
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Thisisnotasmile wrote:
From reading this, it seems we don't have to wait between turns to use those tools?

No. (Note the use of "hypothetically.") However, you can *employ* trained workers without ever buying tools!

Instead of buying tools, just employ your workers directly.
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