Bonaparte
United States DesMoines Washington
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I just got this game from my Secret Santa and hope to play it with my son over the holiday. Reading the posts on here, it sounds like the rules are aweful, or were. Are the second edition rules still bad? Any suggestions for learning this game well enough to have it be enjoyable with a 15 year old boy?
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brian
United States Cedar Lake Indiana
Mourning the end of the Manning era.
Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.
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I am biased since I helped out with teh 2nd edition rules. The language is cleaned up so there is less confusion there. However, the same rule structure is in effect which can still be confusing. Basically, it tells you everything you could possible do on your turn during each phase even though during any given game, you only have 3 options available.
I posted this elsewhere, which may help you start to understand:
ColtsFan76 wrote: The rulebook has to be complete but it is not the best way to learn it.
In essence, the Defender has the freedom to do what he wants, when he wants. The Invader has a very narrow focus randomly determined each game.
So starting with the Invader, take out the cards that have a star on them and only read up on those specific actions. While the rulebook may have 10 different options for you to perform, you will actually only get to perform 3 of those any given phase based on which cards you draw. Reading those 3 descriptions will help minimize what you have to remember and confuse you a little less. For example, the battering ram isn't available to you now so skip that and all references to it in the rules.
So the basic flow is this: The Invader wants to break into the Stronghold. He is going to get a set amount of resources and units to accomplish that task each turn. He can use those units and resources to build equipment, train, do rituals, etc or he can save some of those units to actually storm the walls and break in. Everything he does produces hourglasses that are given to the Defender. The defender then spends this like money to prepare the defenses. So the more time the Invader spends preparing, the more time the Defender spends reacting.
The Invader has a very regimented process he must follow. Phase 1 he gets his resources. Phase 2 he can spend building machines. Phase 3 he can build equipment, etc. He can only do the actions performed on his card that are associate with that phase. So phase 1 he can only get troops and resources. Then the game turns over to the Defender, he can spend the hourglasses on anything. Once he is done, the Invader takes Phase 2 and works on a machine. He spends the resources and the troops that he has. Then the game turns over to the Defender who spends all his hourglasses again. And so on.
Once the invader has gone through the first 5 phases (or skipped any of them, his choice) any units he has left over are now Dispatched towards the stronghold. This happens in a series of waves. First they move from your left over stock to the foregrounds, who will then move to the Ramparts, and then finally to the walls (to keep track of this easier and not move units twice, the movement of these actually starts ramparts to walls first, then foreground to rampart, then your stock to the foregrounds). How many units you move again gives hourglasses to the Defender.
Throughout this process, as the Defender gets hourglasses, he assigns them to his buildings. He can put them wherever, whenever. He does not follow a strict regiment like the Invader. When he spends enough time on an action, he then takes that action. That ranges from his training his own units, to building his own machines, to whatever. The Defender must spend all time he gets between phases, but he can leave certain spaces empty on his buildings so that the last time spent (triggering the action) can happen when he wants it to.
After the 6 phases have been completed and the Defender spends the last of his hourglasses, the Assault begins. There is once a gain a strict sequence of resolution. Ranged combat happens first, which is usually just machines firing back and forth, then the Melee combat. In the early stages, melee will just trade casualties back and forth at the walls. Defender has more strength than the Invader at this wall section, the invader loses some units. Invader stronger, he kills defender units. If the invader is so strong at one point that the defender can't absorb the difference, that is a breach and the game is over after this round.
If the invader doesn't breach, a new round begins. You do the same steps over again starting with gaining resources and fresh units in phase 1.
Hopefully that helps clear the mist a little.
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Bonaparte
United States DesMoines Washington
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That is helpful Brian, thanks much.
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Ivan Trombik
Switzerland Zuerich
A.W.E.S.O.M.O. SAYS: SPACE EMPIRES:4X IS SO AWESOME !
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Recommend to download Stronghold VG Rules Defender/Invader English from File-Section Page 2/5 uploaded from Velusion, Proofreader of Stronghold, developed together with ColtsFan76 the almighty himself. My opinion: ColtsFan 76 is for Stronghold what Jim Krohn is for SpaceEmpires:4X. And Posting a question in Forum never hurts, ColtsFan 76 answers fast, faster than light in far Space can travel (sometimes I wonder HOW he does that). But there is already a high probability that u find ur answers in the large Stronghold Database here on BGG.
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Bansko wrote: Recommend to download Stronghold VG Rules Defender/Invader English from File-Section Page 2/5 uploaded from Velusion, Proofreader of Stronghold, developed together with ColtsFan76 the almighty himself. My opinion: ColtsFan 76 is for Stronghold what Jim Krohn is for SpaceEmpires:4X. And Posting a question in Forum never hurts, ColtsFan 76 answers fast, faster than light in far Space can travel (sometimes I wonder HOW he does that). But there is already a high probability that u find ur answers in the large Stronghold Database here on BGG. 
how much did Brian pay you ??? you're talking more about him than Stronghold...
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brian
United States Cedar Lake Indiana
Mourning the end of the Manning era.
Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.
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powerwis wrote: Bansko wrote: Recommend to download Stronghold VG Rules Defender/Invader English from File-Section Page 2/5 uploaded from Velusion, Proofreader of Stronghold, developed together with ColtsFan76 the almighty himself. My opinion: ColtsFan 76 is for Stronghold what Jim Krohn is for SpaceEmpires:4X. And Posting a question in Forum never hurts, ColtsFan 76 answers fast, faster than light in far Space can travel (sometimes I wonder HOW he does that). But there is already a high probability that u find ur answers in the large Stronghold Database here on BGG.  how much did Brian pay you ??? you're talking more about him than Stronghold...  Sit down and be quiet! The man is intriguing! I hang on his every word.
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ColtsFan76 wrote: powerwis wrote: Bansko wrote: Recommend to download Stronghold VG Rules Defender/Invader English from File-Section Page 2/5 uploaded from Velusion, Proofreader of Stronghold, developed together with ColtsFan76 the almighty himself. My opinion: ColtsFan 76 is for Stronghold what Jim Krohn is for SpaceEmpires:4X. And Posting a question in Forum never hurts, ColtsFan 76 answers fast, faster than light in far Space can travel (sometimes I wonder HOW he does that). But there is already a high probability that u find ur answers in the large Stronghold Database here on BGG.  how much did Brian pay you ??? you're talking more about him than Stronghold...  Sit down and be quiet! The man is intriguing! I hang on his every word. 
Brian the almighty that answers faster than light can travel 
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Ivan Trombik
Switzerland Zuerich
A.W.E.S.O.M.O. SAYS: SPACE EMPIRES:4X IS SO AWESOME !
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May the Defender-Cauldrons and Catapult-Invaders never run out of Ammo! Hail Brian! Hail ColtsFan 76! Powerwis: Payment: Sorry strictly classified, not even a guess of the exact number can be told. Hint: its far more than one wooden wall. Merry Christmas to u all Guys!
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