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Subject: Geek of The Year Award discussion thread rss

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Discussions about these lists:

2010 - Geek Of The Year Award 2010
2011 - Geek Of The Year Award 2011

And a great quote from the very first list:

wavemotion wrote:
msbtch2u wrote:
I loathe popularity contests.

And yet you've rated almost 175 games giving them a rank in our system. Our rankings are a popularity contest - they are the games enjoyed by those of us who frequent the Geek (and we really are still a small group of gamers within the hobby - the number of people who have rated Ticket to Ride here is less than 1% of the people that have played it worldwide). Nothing more - other sites would scoff at such rankings and where we've placed the games in order. Heck, even within our ranks there is division between Wargamers, Family Gamers, Euro Gamers, etc. Our GoldenGeek awards are a popularity contest. All ten-thousand polls created here in the past decade are a popularity contest. Geek of the Week is a popularity contest as well - only it's the decision of a single person rather than a group. As such it is subject to the most whims so may appear to not be a contest because the selection choice rests with a single person. There are lots of people that would have been GotW if they weren't, well to be perfectly honest, jerks. Thumbs, tips and Hotness Lists are all popularity contests. You can argue that we give these things to people who post valuable content or things we found useful/interesting - how is that different than voting in a poll for something or someone that provides equally valuable content?

I'm okay with you loathing popularity contests - but you're on the wrong site if that's how you feel.

Having said that, I'm both embarrassed to be nominated and honored that people feel that I'm doing something here that they feel is worthy of a thumb of recognition. I'd be fine if this contest went away. I'd be fine if I came in last. I'd be fine if I won - after all, it's really not so bad a feeling to feel useful and appreciated - I think Maslow would agree. On second thought, maybe its just my Egoic mind that needs a little care and feeding once in a while!

-Dave
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I don't see ranking games as being a popularity contest. The number of owners and/or number of plays would be all you need to determine their ranking then. However, the real difference is that the community as a whole has an infinite amount of time to affect those rankings. With the Geek of the Year, it is a finite amount of time to choose and have effect. It also will be undoubtedly subject to a whole set of bias factors, many of which already exist in the GotW award, but then add a few more and/or intensify those that already exist.

Really, in the end it will be nothing more than a concentrated form of the Geek of the Week award. I have never liked "who knows who" awards, and more often than not this it what the GotW ends up being. However, I will admit that occasionally I've gotten the sense a person will actually try and choose somebody worthy, rather than who they happen to simply know, but I think this is the far less common outcome.
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ejtracer wrote:
I don't see ranking games as being a popularity contest. The number of owners and/or number of plays would be all you need to determine their ranking then. However, the real difference is that the community as a whole has an infinite amount of time to affect those rankings. With the Geek of the Year, it is a finite amount of time to choose and have effect. It also will be undoubtedly subject to a whole set of bias factors, many of which already exist in the GotW award, but then add a few more and/or intensify those that already exist.

Really, in the end it will be nothing more than a concentrated form of the Geek of the Week award. I have never liked "who knows who" awards, and more often than not this it what the GotW ends up being. However, I will admit that occasionally I've gotten the sense a person will actually try and choose somebody worthy, rather than who they happen to simply know, but I think this is the far less common outcome.


this award has nothing to do with geek of the week award. while gotw is simply auser who we should know more abot and is not award at all then this woube.more like their contributions to the site and to the caming. most of them already are gotw and rest will for sure be.


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binraix wrote:
ejtracer wrote:
I don't see ranking games as being a popularity contest. The number of owners and/or number of plays would be all you need to determine their ranking then. However, the real difference is that the community as a whole has an infinite amount of time to affect those rankings. With the Geek of the Year, it is a finite amount of time to choose and have effect. It also will be undoubtedly subject to a whole set of bias factors, many of which already exist in the GotW award, but then add a few more and/or intensify those that already exist.

Really, in the end it will be nothing more than a concentrated form of the Geek of the Week award. I have never liked "who knows who" awards, and more often than not this it what the GotW ends up being. However, I will admit that occasionally I've gotten the sense a person will actually try and choose somebody worthy, rather than who they happen to simply know, but I think this is the far less common outcome.


this award has nothing to do with geek of the week award. while gotw is simply auser who we should know more abot and is not award at all then this woube.more like their contributions to the site and to the caming. most of them already are gotw and rest will for sure be.


I disagree, and I'll tell you why...

binraix wrote:
this award has nothing to do with geek of the week award... most of them already are gotw and rest will for sure be.


Your two comments contradict each other seem show an implicit relation between the two by your own admission.


Then you contradict yourself again...

binraix wrote:
this award... is not award at all


Not trying to be mean, but you seem to say there is a relation and you are calling it an award.


Also, they name itself implies a relation to some extent, especially when one is officially endorsed by the site, even while the other is not. (i.e. Geek of the Week vs. Geek of the Year)

Even if its not officially recognized its still suffers from the same bias that lays behind and drives most GotW selections, the causes and effect of the one are not mutually exclusive to the other. Granted there is no microbadge awarded to the unofficial yearly version you created, but the ability to still claim receipt of the title is an award that can be listed on your profile and stays within the thread that its announced on. Then if one so chose, it could be further flaunted later, worn like medal for all to see. Call me crazy, but that still sounds like an "award" to me.

If nothing else look up the definition of the word "award". An award is something given to a person to recognize excellence in an area, and an award can certainly be a title. So by definition, if you are trying to point out a "user who we should know more about" and garner them recognition via a title, then you are in fact still giving out an award.
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ejtracer wrote:


You too much look into a word play and use of a non-English speaker who uses English as 3rd or 4th language. You simple have not enough words or I just do not know them.

Geek of the week - ONE person chooses random (what most people usually do, with dice etc) or someone they know or think need the spotlight for a week. It is not an actual award as well, like a sign that at least ONE person thought you deserved it.

Geek of the year - will be voted by MANY other geeks, which brings to show the impact he/she have had to the community and it has nothing to do with a week in spotlight. No questions are asked, because you already should have done something to deserve it. Hope I made myself clear here. Last year when Jeremy Salinas started his HD videos, his impact was enormous and therefore got the "award", same goes to Tom Vasel and RPG god Wavemotion as well.

I only made this since the BGG awarding system goes only so far. As gold award is the furthest one can go and only with like 100 images and so, it creates an empty spot or a bar to set your goal on. You simply need to be active and hope that someone will nominate you and someone will vote for you. And the Top 3 is just cause it seems more appropriate to my eyes.

I would like to keep the Geek of The Year thing alive, but I am willing to chance the format to some extent, so that more people would be more comfortable, but since BGG is a social network for board game enthusiasts, then it is quite normal that any kind of "popularity" contest is done.

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Well, its fairly obvious that I personally have a lot of criticism over the whole idea, but as oppose to more criticism let me be more constructive with regards to it. Let me offer three suggestions that I think are needed and that I hope you will see as reasonable and implement.

1. Change the Name/Title "Geek of the Year" as it too closely resembles "Geek of the Week", which as I more-or-less noted gives a sense of it being an official site event, and they sound too closely related. I think its important to create more of a distinction in the two via name. If you like I can offer suggestions.

2. Be sure to make it overly and abundantly clear in the thread you created where voting and nominations takes place, that it is an "unofficial" event. I think its important that it be absolutely clear that the event is not directly endorsed by BGG.

3. In the thread for voting and nominations be sure to mention that you personally initiated the idea and are running it. This way people know that its not related to the BGG Admin in any direct fashion.
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ejtracer wrote:
Well, its fairly obvious that I personally have a lot of criticism over the whole idea, but as oppose to more criticism let me be more constructive with regards to it. Let me offer three suggestions that I think are needed and that I hope you will see as reasonable and implement.

1. Change the Name/Title "Geek of the Year" as it too closely resembles "Geek of the Week", which as I more-or-less noted gives a sense of it being an official site event, and they sound too closely related. I think its important to create more of a distinction in the two via name. If you like I can offer suggestions.

2. Be sure to make it overly and abundantly clear in the thread you created where voting and nominations takes place, that it is an "unofficial" event. I think its important that it be absolutely clear that the event is not directly endorsed by BGG.

3. In the thread for voting and nominations be sure to mention that you personally initiated the idea and are running it. This way people know that its not related to the BGG Admin in any direct fashion.


Points 2 and 3 are written in the header. Always have been. Will go and make it bold as well.

What you think would be better name?
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Galadriel70 wrote:
Do we really need another alpha dog's butt to sniff?


you what you do every day here in the geek, just vote to recognize those who make it possible for you to do it what ever you do here.
You do not have to sniff anything, just make some feel of appreciation to those who make all this happen...
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binraix wrote:
ejtracer wrote:
Well, its fairly obvious that I personally have a lot of criticism over the whole idea, but as oppose to more criticism let me be more constructive with regards to it. Let me offer three suggestions that I think are needed and that I hope you will see as reasonable and implement.

1. Change the Name/Title "Geek of the Year" as it too closely resembles "Geek of the Week", which as I more-or-less noted gives a sense of it being an official site event, and they sound too closely related. I think its important to create more of a distinction in the two via name. If you like I can offer suggestions.

2. Be sure to make it overly and abundantly clear in the thread you created where voting and nominations takes place, that it is an "unofficial" event. I think its important that it be absolutely clear that the event is not directly endorsed by BGG.

3. In the thread for voting and nominations be sure to mention that you personally initiated the idea and are running it. This way people know that its not related to the BGG Admin in any direct fashion.


Points 2 and 3 are written in the header. Always have been. Will go and make it bold as well.

What you think would be better name?


I think they could be a lot clearer, its almost like you offhandedly mention it being unofficial midway through once, and I'm not getting the whole "It was created by you." sense off of it.

Suggestions that you can begin to work with or take in whole.

Annual Geek Acknowledgment
Yearly Geek Recognition


You will note that the word "Award" has been removed from my suggestions. This was purposeful to help further distinguish it not being an official BGG event or award.
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ejtracer wrote:
You will note that the word "Award" has been removed from my suggestions. This was purposeful to help further distinguish it not being an official BGG event or award.

I'm not sure what's official and what's not. Most awards on this site are user-driven just as most content is. The collector badges were created by users and handed out manually for many months before they became BGG auto-awarded. Same for Level Badges (I started the initiative on those). Same with the Generosity Threads. Same with the One-Page Design contest. Same with the Creature Creation contest. Same with the Feel-The-Love thread (which got its own support module this year!). I could list another hundred initiatives which are all user-driven. We have numerous contents and such generated by the people here without any real admin involvement (actually, 99% of the contests over on RPG Geek are user-generated - with the exception of the GoldenGeeks - I've no idea what the percentage is on BGG). Sometimes those user events get auto-handled by the system over time to take the load off users and volunteers. There is no one rule or clear delineation between a user contest, award or event and an 'official' one from BGG. If Raiko wants to call this an award, then it's an award. If he wants to call it a jixelplex, then that's what it's called instead. You and I don't decide that - nor does BGG. If the users support an idea, it flies. If they don't, it goes away. Declaring something as 'not official' doesn't matter a lick. This 'award' is no more or less official than Geek of the Week (I implemented the RPG one with no official sponsorship - I was unable to procure a signed document from Aldie stating it was official).

Remember, we have always been a user-driven site. Other than the underlying structure of the database, forums and the the servers (all super-important, BTW) - everything done here is crafted by community users who care.

My advice to Raiko and others who want to try various initiatives on the Geek is this: people who give personal reasons why something shouldn't be done can often be ignored by people who are actually doing the work.

Dave
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wavemotion wrote:
ejtracer wrote:
You will note that the word "Award" has been removed from my suggestions. This was purposeful to help further distinguish it not being an official BGG event or award.

I'm not sure what's official and what's not. Most awards on this site are user-driven just as most content is. The collector badges were created by users and handed out manually for many months before they became BGG auto-awarded. Same for Level Badges (I started the initiative on those). Same with the Generosity Threads. Same with the One-Page Design contest. Same with the Creature Creation contest. Same with the Feel-The-Love thread (which got its own support module this year!). I could list another hundred initiatives which are all user-driven. We have numerous contents and such generated by the people here without any real admin involvement (actually, 99% of the contests over on RPG Geek are user-generated - with the exception of the GoldenGeeks - I've no idea what the percentage is on BGG). Sometimes those user events get auto-handled by the system over time to take the load off users and volunteers. There is no one rule or clear delineation between a user contest, award or event and an 'official' one from BGG. If Raiko wants to call this an award, then it's an award. If he wants to call it a jixelplex, then that's what it's called instead. You and I don't decide that - nor does BGG. If the users support an idea, it flies. If they don't, it goes away. Declaring something as 'not official' doesn't matter a lick. This 'award' is no more or less official than Geek of the Week (I implemented the RPG one with no official sponsorship - I was unable to procure a signed document from Aldie stating it was official).

Remember, we have always been a user-driven site. Other than the underlying structure of the database, forums and the the servers (all super-important, BTW) - everything done here is crafted by community users who care.

My advice to Raiko and others who want to try various initiatives on the Geek is this: people who give personal reasons why something shouldn't be done can often be ignored by people who are actually doing the work.

Dave


I agree and disagree with some of your points, and some of them are quite good, but I'll keep it short since, like myself, people are going to have their opinions and arguments either way on the idea/initiative. I'm just sharing my thoughts and concerns since we are a community.

To me the lines between "official" and "unofficial" are often quite clear, and you actually drew one of those lines yourself. If something is "auto-handled by the system" then it has clearly been brought into the "official" fold, prior to that it may not be. This is not to say that something must be auto-handled by the system to be official, but it is one indicator among many. Its also true to say that many official awards first started as being unofficial items, but that means at some point a line, or one of the lines, had to be crossed allowing it to evolve from one to the other.

My argument was not for personal reasons and instead for community based ones, I'm sorry if you did not see that and if you perceived it as something other than what it was/is.
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ejtracer wrote:
wavemotion wrote:
[q="ejtracer"]You will note that the word "Award" has been removed from my suggestions. This was purposeful to help further distinguish it not being an official BGG event or award.
To me the lines between "official" and "unofficial" are often quite clear, and you actually drew one of those lines yourself. If something is "auto-handled by the system" then it has clearly been brought into the "official" fold, prior to that it may not be. This is not to say that something must be auto-handled by the system to be official, but it is one indicator among many. Its also true to say that many official awards first started as being unofficial items, but that means at some point a line, or one of the lines, had to be crossed allowing it to evolve from one to the other.

So, if I ask the fantastic MB artists to design a microbadge for the GotY and ask a developer or admin to award it... would that make it official for you? It's easily done and I could probably spare the 5 minutes to make it happen (with reasonable bounty to the MB artists). Honestly, there aren't many official Geek awards beyond the GoldenGeeks - and even those are chosen by users (but sponsored by BGG, LLC in terms of physical hardware and announced at BGG.con). It's all just community stuff - some of it the userbase embraces and some we don't.

Dave
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How is this still being debated? I don't see the point of GotW let alone GotY, but I wouldn't think of denying others of the freedom to start it. In the end it's neither something that benefits, nor hurts me, so I'm indifferent. I can't see how a GotY can hurt anyone. If chosen, you can accept if you need the praise and turn it down if you want nothing to do with it. Those not chosen can just choose to not partake in the process, including ignoring or blocking all relevant threads and geeklists.

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Hey all,

Some interesting arguments here. It is true that many of the awards given on the site are for popularity. Hopefully most of them are given to people who actually contribute a lot as well. For the most part, I believe that is true.

The community is largely a volunteer organization. People dedicate their time, money, effort and creativity to the site. They invest in it. Volunteer organizations biggest challenge is usually finding qualified and dedicated people to work for them. The geek has done a tremendous job at getting contributions.

Awards are one of the biggest ways that people are rewarded for contributions. I believe that a lot of gamers are used to the whole 'level up' thing in their games, so it is a natural fit to find it here. In the end, I think that awards help the site by getting more and more people to contribute. If this award does that too, all the better.

Two of my cents.
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For an actual suggestion, I would like to see it highlighted that having done work on all three domains is noteworthy.
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Thanks for the nomination!

I think it is great that I have been nominated for this! Funny thing... I have been on the "geek" and doing reviews/podcast for a long time and I've never even been asked to be Geek of the Week! LOL~ !!!

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