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allstar64 wrote: What is the condition for overbuilding that you play with?
Both the map and the distant market are empty of coal or iron whichever is the case.
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so how did you guys manage to use over 24 pieces of Iron in the canal period? Were you developing like mad?
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Chris Berger
United States
Volo
Illinois
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RoadHouse wrote: arkayn wrote: RoadHouse wrote: My level 2 or 3 mill was once overbuilt by an opposing player's level 4 iron mill in the canal period. Is this very common? No. In fact, it seems almost impossible unless you guys both developed away at least your level 1 Iron Works. (Also, guessing that the other player or players didn't build any Iron Works and did some developing.) It's possible. There are 5 spots available in the canal era for iron. If I remember correctly it was a 3-player game and we both developed level 1 mill. I built level 2 and 3 mills and the other guy build level 2 ,3 and overbuild my level 3 with his level 4. The third guy was kinda out of the loop.
That's what I said - almost impossible, unless you both developed your level 1 Iron Works. I don't really see the point in developing Iron (unless you have your lvl 1 still around at the end of canal and intend to build Iron in the rail phase), but if you did, then I could see it happening, but it'd still be weird. You'd have to go through 26 Iron during the phase, meaning a minimum of 13 actions that cost Iron. So maybe if there were 6 industries built that required Iron and 10 Develop actions.
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So, it has to be then my level 2 iron replaced by the opponent's level 4, makes more sense.
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Beware the madness.
So, it was actually like that I built level 2, 3 and 4 (purple) and yellow built level 2 , 3 and overbuilt my level 2 mill with his level 4. (the order of build is not this obviously, something that I don't remember)
It's 38 iron cubes total spent during the canal period.
It seems like there are 2 level 3 cotton= 2 cubes, 4 level 3 coal mines= 4 cubes. That totals 6 cubes.
So, 38-6 = 32
32/2= 16 develop actions , which means 16/3 = 5,3333 develop actions per player.
With 3-players you'll have 10 round(1 action in the first round), which means that you have 19 actions. 5,333.../19 = 28 % of actions.
I guess we still had "a little" overdev  Probably shitty play but happened what happened
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I'll try to give a fair assessment of your game. From your talking you seem to know the rules pretty well but still overbuilding in the canal era is notoriously rare and I won't lie, when you said that 5 works were built and someone was still able to overbuild I was pretty sure you were playing something wrong.
First of all the picture you showed us in in the rail era so some of those industries shown were not built during the canal era. You (purple) could not have spent any Iron for anything other than developing during the canal era. Red could have spent 2 iron for his coal mills while Yellow could have spent 2 iron for his coal mills and one of your opponents could have built a shipyard (given all the developing that had to occur I'd say this is likely) so at most it is 5 iron spent. 38-5 = 33 in best case scenario although I find it very hard to believe that both your opponents would build 2 level 3 coal in the canal era.
I think it was more likely 3/4 coal spent during the canal era non-developing raising the necessary number of necessary develops to close to 6 per person.
However I see 2 things which support your story. First of all your opponents both seem to have developed away a level 2 coal. This leads me to believe that your opponents haven't played very much cause experienced players would never do this. Level 2 coal for it's cost gives an amazing income boost making it extremely valuable in the rail age. More experienced players know this.
Second if you and yellow were able to get a lot of iron works down early than the idea that everyone would be develop crazy (even 6 times in the canal era) isn't that unbelievable. You and yellow would need to develop away a lot of iron to get your mills flipped and developing would be very cheap making it very desirable to do right then.
What is hard to believe is that you would need to get the iron out very early and that even once the mills were flipped the first 6 iron cubes would be purchased off the board. Experienced players would not allow you to get out iron that fast (and without some help you will not be able to play iron nearly that quickly) though less experienced players might be less prone to playing the "deny iron" game that experienced players do. Also with the amount of developing you were doing I can't see why anyone would bother buying from the distant market track once the free iron was all used up.
So I suppose what you described is reasonable but it's still very hard to believe.
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Aah, that picture was later in the rail period but for 100 % I remember, even said out loud that it's amazing if somebody has level 2-4 mills on the board, and it was yellow. Probably I had only level 2 and 3, and either of those was overbuilt. There was a huge amount of dev in canal. Actually the scores for me and yellow were not that bad after all, something around 190 and a bit over 180 for me, and I realized later that I could have had like over 10 more points If I had built a shipyard instead of something else. Considering my overbuilt mill, it could have been easily closer or over 200.
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arkayn wrote: RoadHouse wrote: My level 2 or 3 mill was once overbuilt by an opposing player's level 4 iron mill in the canal period. Is this very common? No. In fact, it seems almost impossible unless you guys both developed away at least your level 1 Iron Works. (Also, guessing that the other player or players didn't build any Iron Works and did some developing.)
Huh? While it's not that common, it has certainly happened in multiple games I've played (though I guess with over 500 4p games played, even if has happened 5-10 times it's still fairly rare). This is especially true when you have experienced players who opt to develop through to level 3 mills and ports instead of playing lower level tiles.
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Posted Tue Jan 3, 2012 7:39 pm
