Eric Pietrocupo
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
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While browsing this game, I was stunned by the amount of rule question threads there were for this game. I compared it with another complex game: Starcraft.
Starcraft
Nb of page in the rule book: 48 (exclude expansion)
Year Published: 2007
nb Pages of thread in the rule sections: 33 (approx 330 post)
Average thread per year: 82.5
Stronghold
Nb of page in the rule book: 35 (both books including pages in double)
Year Published: 2009
Nb Pages of thread in the rule sections: 36 (approx 360 post)
Average thread per year: 180
Do you realize that Stronghold not only have a higher amount of question per year, but the total number of question is also higher than Starcraft which I consider as a game much more complex than stronghold.
Most people say that the rules were badly written, personally I thing it's the amount of details and exception that increases the ambiguity and interpretation of the rules.
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brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
Mourning the end of the Manning era.
Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.
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More than anything, it was the poor translation.
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Ted Spencer
United States
Lake in the Hills
Illinois
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Eric, this is very interesting. I've been looking at Stronghold more and more seriously, and have a gamebud to play it with regularly. The info you present has me thinking again.
While the interpretation of the numbers can differ, the numbers remain the same. Do I want to purchase a game, not yet played by me, with so many rules questions?
What would be even more interesting to me, and a service to BGG, would be more comparisons, more games. Plus the weights of the games.
But for this effort alone, accept my 
Thanks!
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Simon Webster
United Kingdom
Leeds
Yorkshire
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I picked Stronghold up a couple of months ago. Grabbed the 2nd edtion rules from the geek and was up and running, no problems.
It's a great game.
It's unique and I highly recommend it if you have any interest in it at all.
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Martin
United States
San Diego area
California
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superflat wrote: Do I want to purchase a game, not yet played by me, with so many rules questions?
It was a pain for people who purchased the game two years ago. At this point you can find the answer to any questions you have, which is a positive thing for a game.
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Snappy Dan
United States
Wesley Chapel
Florida
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superflat wrote: Do I want to purchase a game, not yet played by me, with so many rules questions?
The new edition by Valley Games eliminates nearly 100% of the questions generated by the 1st edition rules. Don't let the 1st edition rule book ambiguities dissuade you from purchasing the Valley Games edition.
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Eric Pietrocupo
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
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I already purchased the valley game edition and I simply hate the game. I'll have to trade it in the next math trade.
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Kris J
United States
Seattle
Washington
. . . or just let me nibble your soul . . . .
Electra Bellum. Electra Gloriosum.
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Wha . . . ?
Strange. Do you like Starcraft? Now THAT is a terrible game.
The more I play Stronghold, the more I like it.
KJ
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Eric Pietrocupo
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
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I agree that starcraft is far from being the best game. I compared it to this game, because it had the same or higher level of complexity and brain burning.
But I started to play it alone with a variant and it is much better because you have the time to think and can plan openly your moves directly on the board instead of in your head.
Still, as people explained, probably the "so many question" is due to the bad rules of the first edition.
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larienna wrote: But I started to play it alone with a variant and it is much better because you have the time to think and can plan openly your moves directly on the board instead of in your head.
I can't decide if your "it" is referring to StarCraft or Stronghold here.
What exactly do you dislike about Stronghold?
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Eric Pietrocupo
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
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In general, I don't like brain burning game which is the case of stronghold. Because everything can be calculated and you'll need to do it to win. Sometimes it becomes complicated to see how the units will move and try to benefit from double movement.
The attacker have access to 1 set of special powers, but the defender has access to all the counter measures. So once the counter measures are in place, all your special powers are neutralized, you cannot use different abilities which has not been counter measured yet.
In general, the game concepts are interesting. I like the movement on the different areas of the board, the various abilities available and the different way to you could capture the castle. But what drops me off is the too much open information that leads to brain burning, the lack of randomness that also leads to brain burning and the wooden pieces which are a mess to work with: too much shapes of the same colors, too small cubes, etc.
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Snappy Dan
United States
Wesley Chapel
Florida
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larienna wrote: The attacker have access to 1 set of special powers, but the defender has access to all the counter measures. So once the counter measures are in place, all your special powers are neutralized, you cannot use different abilities which has not been counter measured yet.
If the defender's certain of your strategy, then sure--he'll likely be able to counter it with his tactics. As the attacker, though, you have to keep the defender guessing by pursuing more than one strategy (think feint attacks in the real world).
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Eric Pietrocupo
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
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Well, you cannot really feint anything because the defender see the special powers the attacker have. The defender can see that you have access to ladders, catapult, poisons, etc. So he know right from the start which counter measures must be set into place.
The only hidden element where you can bluff is with the orders tokens which are hidden modifiers.
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Snappy Dan
United States
Wesley Chapel
Florida
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larienna wrote: Well, you cannot really feint anything because the defender see the special powers the attacker have. The defender can see that you have access to ladders, catapult, poisons, etc. So he know right from the start which counter measures must be set into place.
How is this possible when the defender receives hourglasses based on the attacker's actions only after the attacker has finished a phase, and the defender must spend those hourglasses before the attacker starts the next phase? How does the defender know which actions the attacker's going to take on the subsequent phases and how many subsequent hourglasses he'll have to spend? In the games I've played, the defender has never had enough hourglasses to counter every possible threat.
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Flawed Hero
United States
Rochester
New York
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Mysterio wrote: larienna wrote: Well, you cannot really feint anything because the defender see the special powers the attacker have. The defender can see that you have access to ladders, catapult, poisons, etc. So he know right from the start which counter measures must be set into place. How is this possible when the defender receives hourglasses based on the attacker's actions only after the attacker has finished a phase, and the defender must spend those hourglasses before the attacker starts the next phase? How does the defender know which actions the attacker's going to take on the subsequent phases and how many subsequent hourglasses he'll have to spend? In the games I've played, the defender has never had enough hourglasses to counter every possible threat.
uhh...you just answered your own question. The defender gets hourglasses after the attacked dispatches his movements, giving the defender the last word, the last choice of how to react to where he moved.
I love the concept and the parts of this game. But the ratio of resource investment to actual rewards for the attacked really turns me off to this game. I can't stand playing as seeing how much I put into it over the courses of several turns just fall flat in a couple simple moves by the defender.
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