zoran
United Kingdom
London
England
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As the target of a takeover using Imperium Invasion Fleet (and a relevant takeover power), does Rebel Cantina now count for Rebel Pact's +2 defense against a takeover?
I've read the rules forum about Imperium Invasion Fleet but still need help.
Thanks.
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Imperium Invasion Fleet has no affect on whether Rebel Pact gives it's bonus or not. Rebel Pact gives a +2 defense bonus for each military rebel card in your tablu during a takeover.
Reble Cantina is not a military card no matter what you do to it so it never gives the +2 bonus for rebel pact.
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zoran
United Kingdom
London
England
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Its cost becomes its defense (p13 BoW summary of powers), I was wondering if it behaved as a military world in this other way.
Thanks for your answer.
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ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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zemus wrote: Its cost becomes its defense (p13 BoW summary of powers), I was wondering if it behaved as a military world in this other way.
Thanks for your answer.
Nah, if an opponent wants to TO Rebel Cantina itself, it's gotta get through your total military strength, and this is odd, but both sides get to count REBEL military str as well since IIF has this "technical" way of "turning" non-mili words into military world as part of its power. Despite that previous sentence, still, I believe Rebel Pact's power can NOT include Rebel Cantina as part of it. Either way, I'll have to let Tom or someone else explain the 'gory details'.
For the reference of others....
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zoran
United Kingdom
London
England
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Its cost does become its defense.
Also,
A takeover will suceed in conquering its target (when it is resolved) if the total Military of the conquering player is greater than or equal to the total Military of the defending player plus the defense of the target world. p4 RvI.
Thanks for the card images.
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nishadham
United Kingdom
Bristol
Avon
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The card says that the player with IIF gets to "place one civilian world as a military world". To me, that doesn't imply: "all players can treat one civilian world as a military world for all intents and purposes this phase". So my guess is that Rebel Cantina is still a civilian world for all other purposes, meaning it doesn't contribute to Rebel Pact even if it's being 'Fleeted.
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Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
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nickjanaway wrote: the player with IIF gets to "place one [non-military] world as a military world". To me, that doesn't imply: "all players can treat one civilian world as a military world for all intents and purposes this phase".
Correct. However, it does mean that the world is treated as a military world *for its placement*, which means that IIF's +1 versus a Rebel military world does count, as would other +Military versus Rebel military world powers and Rebel Pact (on defense).
In the OP's scenario (valid TO w/ IIF vs RC w/ RP), the attacker gains +1 Military and the defender gains +2 defense for evaluating this TO by virtue of making RC the TO target.
This does *not* mean that RC would then count as a Rebel military world either for the purpose of evaluating goals at the end of this Settle phase or for affecting the later resolution of another, different TO in the same Settle phase (for example, a TO involving Rebel Alliance or Rebel Sneak attack by the original RC player, which would count Rebel military worlds present). These occur after the "placement" of RC is finished, when RC reverts to a non-military Rebel world.
The reasoning here is exactly the same as with Contact Specialist and Replicating Robots (in the base game). Invoking Contact Specialist effectively turns a (non-Alien) military world into a non-military world for its placement, allowing Replicating Robots to then be invoked to further reduce its cost. (The same is true for CS and Colony Ship.) After the cost is paid and the placement complete, this world then reverts to a military world (for example, for evaluating goals at the end of that Settle phase).
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Tom Lehmann wrote: In the OP's scenario (valid TO w/ IIF vs RC w/ RP), the attacker gains +1 Military and the defender gains +2 defense for evaluating this TO by virtue of making RC the TO target.
Apologies if I'm being dense, but a couple of related queries for completeness. In the case of resolving a takeover on a non-military world via IIF:
1) If the defender has Rebel Pact and the takeover target is not Rebel Cantina, is the defender's military increased by one, for the purposes of evaluating this and only this takeover?
2) If the defender has Hidden Fortress, is the defender's military increased by one, for the purposes of evaluating this and only this takeover?
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Tom Lehmann
United States
Palo Alto
California
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NtNScissors wrote: In the case of resolving a takeover on a non-military world via IIF:
1) If the defender has Rebel Pact and the takeover target is not Rebel Cantina, is the defender's military increased by one, for the purposes of evaluating this and only this takeover?
2) If the defender has Hidden Fortress, is the defender's military increased by one, for the purposes of evaluating this and only this takeover?
Yes and yes. Forcing a non-military world to "mobilize" by attacking it via a TO power and IIF could have adverse effects in certain situations (such as when this world is in an empire in which a Rebel Pact exists or with hidden defense systems), just as attacking the Rebel Cantina in this manner might also have an unexpected result if, say, that Cantina was in an empire where it was "under surveillance" by the Galactic Imperium...
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