$10.00
Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
36 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BattleCON: War of Indines» Forums » Rules

Subject: Two questions. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
David Gearhart
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Zaamassal's paradigm shift base says at the start of a beat he can change his paradigm. What happens if he has the paradigm of resilience active? Does the soak two still fade away at the normal time (after activating), or does it last longer?

Kehrolyn's mutating style has an end of beat effect where she loses one life. If that's her current form, does she still lose that one life? Does everything from her current form's text box get added?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Talton
United States
New Mexico
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻
mbmbmbmbmb
For Zaamassal, he does get Soak 2 if he switches to Resilience (or if you activate Resilience's SoB before activating Paradigm Shift. If he does not have Resilience active at the After Activating Stage, he retains Soak 2 until the end of the beat.

For Kehrolyn, she loses 1 life whenever mutating is used, be it as a current form or as the style on her attack pair, or even as part of an Overload. Things get added to Mutating's text box, but nothing gets replaced.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Gearhart
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Thanks for the quick reply! I'll just add questions here. That way, if you end up making an FAQ or clarification thing, at least my questions will all be in the same place to make it easier.

1). Cadenza's Press and Zaamaassal's Paradigm of Pain. Does Cadenza's Press count loss of life as damage for the return strike?

2). Will there ever be an executive decision about timing? It seems like it might come up more often in tournament play that somebody's start of beat effects happen first. Like what happens in the case of Regicide's "advance until you're adjacent" and Burst's "retreat one".

Thanks for your time. Really enjoying this game, although tips on how to beat Zammassal would also be appreciated. He seems insane. He does everything. Is there a bad match up for him? Because it doesn't feel like it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Talton
United States
New Mexico
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻
mbmbmbmbmb
Of course! It's always good to get the questions out in the open.

1) Cadenza does not count the loss of life as damage. Similarly, the loss of life effect can never kill a player, just like other loss of life effects.

2) The active player gets to do all of his effects first, then the reactive player gets to do all of his effects.

This is the first time I've heard that complaint leveled at Zaamassal, but I can definitely understand it. He is a very good all-rounder, but he doesn't excel at any one aspect, so there aren't many very good or very bad matches against him. I would say not to let him pre-empt your actions. It typically takes him 1 turn to shift to the right paradigm to counter whatever position of the field you are in, so get there, do your attack, and leave, before he can start to capitalize on advantages. Also don't forget you can stun him even if you are going second, and he has very few getaways, so counterattacks are very effective against him. Bryan can probably tell you more about his weaknesses than I can. I'll try and point him to read this thread.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate K
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Any opponent can be defeated if you can get into the player's head and predict what he or she will do. But catchphrases like that don't actually help you. Maybe try playing Luc von Gott against Zaamassal? Luc's Time tokens give him some incredible maneuverability. "Hi, I'm now right next to you from all the way across the arena. Oh, and I just stunned you." Worth a shot.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Graham
United States
College Station
Texas
flag msg tools
I am Broccoli, most intelligent vegetable!
badge
I will destroy you all!
mbmbmbmbmb
Brad and Nate both gave pretty good suggestions. Playing Zaam well is all about getting into a good rhythm, shifting paradigms at the right time for the right situation. As a result, defeating him is all about breaking that rhythm. A few good stuns (forcing him to drop paradigms) can actually be really hard for Zaam to recover from. Strike is your friend for the Stun Guard 5, and even Shot's Stun Guard 2 can be really helpful. Like Nate mentioned, anyone that can teleport or has a decent number of SoB moves can really throw a wrench in his plans and obviously anyone that has On Hit Stuns can really mess him up.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Gearhart
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
More questions!

If Zaamassal has his Paradigm of Haste active, and Tatusmi is right next to him and plays her Empathic Style, can she still swap places with Juto? The Paradigm of Haste says that opponents can't move, but Empathic doesn't say move, it says swap.

What other variants are requirements for tournament play? I know that special actions must be included for tournament play, but I was also curious about Arenas and the like.

I was also curious if the kickstarter promotional characters were going to be allowed tournament legality because of their special nature. It just seems odd to me to have a tournament where the prize is a promotional character, that you can then never use in other tournaments. Seems a bit odd to me.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Talton
United States
New Mexico
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻
mbmbmbmbmb
Paradigm of Haste doesn't stop Direct Movement (like Khadath's teleport or Luc's ante power or Tatsumi's exchange effect).

For Tournament Play, Special Actions are required. You can play a standard match tournament, a character team tournament (recommended) or a tag tournament. Other variants (such as arenas, ex, almighty, etc) are not balanced for tournament play, and shouldn't be included.

When you are holding a local tournament, you can include additional characters if you have enough copies (1 per box) to support the tournament. These won't be legal at our big tournament at GenCon or events like that for 2 reasons:

#1) Mainly because they are not balanced as finely as the boxed characters, and not everyone has equal access to them. We will have some tournament prizes that are potentially usable, such as vanity characters like this.

#2) The tournament environment is designed to be a closed format where players don't ever need to bring their own product to play. If we allowed promotional characters that some people own and others don't it would defeat that paradigm.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Gearhart
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Just wanted to say that I appreciate how quick you are to answer questions and whatnot. That's awesome.

In the character team tournament, is it designed so that it's impossible to have mirror matches? Because if people are drafting characters, that makes it impossible by the very token of someone claiming it first. Is this intentional?

I do like the alternate art Kallistar Flarechild (it's a shame that I never play her or even like her character). Will you be doing that with all the characters? Because if I could get a Tatsumi Nuoc and Juto that focused almost exclusively on Juto, that would be pretty much the best thing ever. Juto's the best, by the way.

Also, I completely understand the thing about closed tournament structures. I just think it's unfortunate that practicing/playing with the promotional characters is bound to have less of an impact than just choosing one to three core characters and getting really good with them. But I understand. Thanks again for the answers and tips and such. Also for making an awesome game.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jayson Stevens
Canada
Surrey
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Deep6er wrote:
Just wanted to say that I appreciate how quick you are to answer questions and whatnot. That's awesome.

In the character team tournament, is it designed so that it's impossible to have mirror matches? Because if people are drafting characters, that makes it impossible by the very token of someone claiming it first. Is this intentional?

Also, I completely understand the thing about closed tournament structures. I just think it's unfortunate that practicing/playing with the promotional characters is bound to have less of an impact than just choosing one to three core characters and getting really good with them.


Actually, from standard rules, the best way to be good at tournaments is to play with EVERYONE. Given how characters are drafted, there's no guarantee you'll even get one of your top 3 picks.
Standard allotment is one box per 4 players. If you're 4th to pick, your top 3 characters could be gone before you even have a chance.

You need to be good with 12 different characters in order to be guaranteed having a team of all characters you're good with.

Even then, you want to practice with all the characters. The best way to understand how to beat Cadenza is to play as Cadenza (as well as against him).

If you and a friend play a lot, the best way to train would be for each of you to take a set of 9 characters as "yours" and then play the hell out of those 81 different matches. Then each of you should pick 3 characters the opponent is using and swap those, and go at it again. Keep swapping if needed.

Playing with promo characters will teach you general gameplay, but not character specifics. Not optimal, but far from bad.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Talton
United States
New Mexico
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻
mbmbmbmbmb
Deep6er wrote:
In the character team tournament, is it designed so that it's impossible to have mirror matches? Because if people are drafting characters, that makes it impossible by the very token of someone claiming it first. Is this intentional?


You may end up with mirror matches in a tournament larger than 4 people, since you will have multiple matches from people who may have drafted from different boxes.

palmerkun wrote:
Actually, from standard rules, the best way to be good at tournaments is to play with EVERYONE.


The tournament structure is designed to give you as much variety in matchups as possible so that the player who wins is the all-around best and not just the one who gets a few good matchups, just as Jayson says
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Gearhart
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I forgot that you need two boxes per eight. That part is pretty important. I can see your point about getting good with as many characters as possible, but there will always be characters that you favor over others. I feel that you'll likely be better served by getting really good with a smaller number of characters, than by getting reasonably (but less) good with all the characters.

I do like the idea behind the tournament matches and variance. However, just as a clarification, the rules say that you're supposed to run every eight as a flight. Given that wording, is it assumed that there's no "cross pollination" between flights? Then, once the flight results in a single undefeated, those people go on to fight it out in single elimination (optimal scenario being an exact thirty two man here)?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Talton
United States
New Mexico
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻
mbmbmbmbmb
The flights are intended mainly for the purpose of drafting. I don't see any reason it would cause problems if you mix the flights (or don't mix them) after that point. You can play with whatever structure you choose at present (double, single, round robin, etc). Once we get the dust settled from the initial release, I'll work on hammering out a more official tournament structure.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jayson Stevens
Canada
Surrey
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Strictly speaking, you could squeeze 5 players out of a box if you had to.
Each box has 5 sets of bases, and 3 characters times 5 players is 15, when the set includes 18.
(4 player limit makes perfect sense when the original set was only 12 characters)

*ponders the idea of making everyone draft specifically 1 basic, 1 advanced and 1 expert character*
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Talton
United States
New Mexico
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻
mbmbmbmbmb
palmerkun wrote:
*ponders the idea of making everyone draft specifically 1 basic, 1 advanced and 1 expert character*


This sounds like a really cool way to teach the tournament setting to new players.

You could squeeze six even, but players would start getting characters they didn't like, and wouldn't play (so you'd have a lot of weak final matchups in a 3 round match)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jayson Stevens
Canada
Surrey
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kyokai wrote:
You could squeeze six even, but players would start getting characters they didn't like, and wouldn't play (so you'd have a lot of weak final matchups in a 3 round match)


I thought there were only 5 sets of bases in a box though, which would make 6 players slightly awkward.

Product suggestion: Sets of more bases (and Ex/Almighty).
Probably just a small POD run for those as there wouldn't be a lot of demand... or even set it up as an artscow premade deck.

3 sets each of base, ex and almighty = one 54 card deck. Added to a box gives you 8/4/4 sets.
I know some people who would want to play 4p free for all with almighty...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Talton
United States
New Mexico
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻
mbmbmbmbmb
There are actually only 4 sets of bases in the box (all you need for a 4p game) and 1 each of Ex and Almighty. Four player FFA Almighty seems kind of broken, but awesome too.

I don't know if we'll have a professionally printed set of bases (there's been some talk about a 4-character "BattleCON Pocket" though ninja), but there's always the Print and Play Edition, and you can do anything you like with that.

... or buy 4 boxes. You should definitely consider that option
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jayson Stevens
Canada
Surrey
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kyokai wrote:
There are actually only 4 sets of bases in the box (all you need for a 4p game) and 1 each of Ex and Almighty. Four player FFA Almighty seems kind of broken, but awesome too.


Ahh ok. The Kickstarter quoted 5 bases (but also says 13 characters), so confusion.

Quote:
(there's been some talk about a 4-character "BattleCON Pocket" though ninja)

That's 4 NEW characters, correct?

That better be correct... or else there might be... unpleasantness. Yeah. We wouldn't want that, now would we?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Talton
United States
New Mexico
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻
mbmbmbmbmb
The KS project quoted 5 (4 regular and 1 Ex) so really we now have 6 (4 basic, 1 ex, 1 almighty).

Pocket will have 4 new characters, if it comes out. I've pretty much got all the characters put together for a full second box though, so maybe we'll just skip that altogether and roll them into the next expand-alone game. It depends on sales of the base game in Q1 and Q2 this year.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate K
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Kyokai wrote:
It depends on sales of the base game in Q1 and Q2 this year.


I would expect those to be fairly substantial. You've got a rockin' awesome game on your hands, Brad, and a very loyal fanbase. whistle I'm confident that the game will take off quickly.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jayson Stevens
Canada
Surrey
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kyokai wrote:
Pocket will have 4 new characters, if it comes out. I've pretty much got all the characters put together for a full second box though, so maybe we'll just skip that altogether and roll them into the next expand-alone game. It depends on sales of the base game in Q1 and Q2 this year.


The one use for Pocket I can see is if you can get the MSRP on that down to 10 bucks (maaaaaaybe 15, aim for 10, maybe 12).

That's serious impulse buy level, and lets people try it out before they fully buy in, It also functions as an expansion for the main game (so we all want it).

You could also consider splitting the next batch of characters.
4-6 for Pocket ($10), and 12 for BC 2: Indines Boogaloo (MSRP $30)

I'm such a keener. I don't even have the first one, and I want multiple expansions...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joachim Pehl
Germany
Daubach
Rheinland-Pfalz
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kyokai wrote:


Pocket will have 4 new characters, if it comes out. I've pretty much got all the characters put together for a full second box though, so maybe we'll just skip that altogether and roll them into the next expand-alone game. It depends on sales of the base game in Q1 and Q2 this year.



For that kind of game. I prefer smaller expansions. They can be made faster and you can skip them if you do not like the characters.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Talton
United States
New Mexico
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻
mbmbmbmbmb
I am planning all expansions to be standalone expansions (since all it takes to turn an expansion into a standalone is 12 base cards and 2 special actions) You're right that it might be better to release 4 character boxes rather than 18 character boxes.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate K
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Kyokai wrote:
I am planning all expansions to be standalone expansions (since all it takes to turn an expansion into a standalone is 12 base cards and 2 special actions) You're right that it might be better to release 4 character boxes rather than 18 character boxes.


So the expandalones will not come with a board?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jayson Stevens
Canada
Surrey
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kyokai wrote:
I am planning all expansions to be standalone expansions (since all it takes to turn an expansion into a standalone is 12 base cards and 2 special actions) You're right that it might be better to release 4 character boxes rather than 18 character boxes.


It's hard to say either way. A major factor (as I see it) comes down to price point.

It's $40 for 18 characters, so the expectation is that 18 more characters will come in close to that price.
4-packs should thus cost $10, giving us 16 characters for $40.
I would almost prefer 6-packs at $15, making 18 characters for $45.

But it gets tricky when it comes down to tokens used by characters. It would be much cheaper to make a pack that included Kallistar, Kehrolyn, Seth and Lixis (1 token, which could be replaced by a card) versus Rukyuk, Luc, Demetrias and Hepzibah (21 tokens). Zaam also messes it up with 5 extra cards (but no tokens).

I would think a sensible, low risk route would be
1: Track sales and uptake
2: Release a 4-6 character pocket expansion
3: Depending on how those sales go as well as demand, either do more Pockets, or release the remaining 12-14 characters in a standalone for $30
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.