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Hi,
as you may now, when 3 players deal character cards, there is a gap in rules. After first 'card deal round', 1st player see exactly which 2 cards are away*, so he has 100% shot and that is wrong.
There is a way how to deal cards, which eliminate this 1st player advantage, we tried, and it works but with some problems, so I think much better would be to play with 9th character.
And now question for you: which character would be ok in 3players game?
- Queen obviously not
- Artist? Well, it is character which spends his money - so instead building new district, or saving money for building, he just spend them. And from our experience, it is not good. If you use it few times, you will be behind in number of buildings, similar to Diplomat (correct mi please, if I am wrong or you have different experience).
- Variant with Tax collector on 9th position? (Taken from Bruno’s webpage**). I haven't tried that, but it could be fine as you have chance to got 0 to 4 gold (if both of your player build 2 districts), even more if Architect is used. However, if players know there is a tax collector in a game, they tend to build with using all their money, so Tax collector gets no money - and his ability becoming weak. There is another option: If a player has no money after build a district, Tax collector gets his money from bank
What do you thing?
1. Is really Artist so weak?
2. Is Tax collector better then Artist in 3players game as 9th character?
3. What about variant with 'money from Tax collector from bank'?
4. Do you use Diplomat often, or just at the end of game to collect colors (or to prevent other player to collect them).We decided to return to Warlord, as Diplomat was barely used due to his 'spend money
Thanks for your answers.
*
When start -
1st card face down, 2nd taken by 1st player
3rd taken by 2nd player
4th taken by 3rd player
now - 1st player see that just 2 cards are away.
**
http://www.faidutti.com/index.php?Module=mesjeux&id=328&fich...
#10th variant
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ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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glzoart wrote: What do you thing?
1. Is really Artist so weak?
2. Is Tax collector better then Artist in 3players game as 9th character?
3. What about variant with 'money from Tax collector from bank'?
4. Do you use Diplomat often, or just at the end of game to collect colors (or to prevent other player to collect them).We decided to return to Warlord, as Diplomat was barely used due to his 'spend money
1- In normal games, I prefer Artist over Queen. I have enough trouble predicting what people normally choose, let alone if the character next to be will pick the King. My variant for this would've also been if the King is 2 away from your position, you get 1 gold. Then one group plays that the "King" is the player with the crown counter, not the actual King character card, and that just makes things very confusing.
I nothing else, I like how the Artist lets you turn gold into points AND makes it more expensive for the Warlord and Diplomat to go after those districts.
2- Never imagined this, but I'd imagine he may be OP...? I each player builds 2 districts, the TC is getting up to 4 gold per round. It may be a solid hurdle to other players from building though.
3- Doesn't sound too bad. I'm leaning towards what I mentnioned in #2 above, but again, I haven't playtested any of that. Perhaps a middleground of 1st gold from player, 2nd from bank then?
4- Havne't played much with Diplomat, but it seems to be be a good use for him. Other usest o rob a good district from your oppoennt for yourself.
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Igor Brígido B. Sales
Brazil
Fortaleza
Ceará
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Ok, use the 9th character as you wish (Artist or Tax Collector) but:
3 players (Variant):
9 chars: 1 facedown, A picks, B picks and discard 1, C picks, A picks and discard 1, B picks, C chooses between 1st facedown and the last one.
This should work fine! ^^
Answering questions:
1 - No, i think he's a fine character.
2 - Never tried the Tax Collector as a 9th character.
3 - Never tried, and probably never will.
4 - My group use the diplomat only when we want faster games. You said "We decided to return to Warlord, as Diplomat was barely used due to his 'spend money" I dont get that. With the Diplomat, you give the money to the player, so he becomes a potential target for the thief next turn.
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detinn wrote: 4 - My group use the diplomat only when we want faster games. You said "We decided to return to Warlord, as Diplomat was barely used due to his 'spend money" I dont get that. With the Diplomat, you give the money to the player, so he becomes a potential target for the thief next turn.
In 2-3 player game, it is an equal battle, people have similar number of districts, and usually a winner is who get ‘first build 8th districts bonus’ or ‘color bonus’…and so everyone wants to use their money to build a next district and spending money to ‘literally’ raise a value of your existing district (by swapping with opponent) is no so attractive. I used it when I wanted to collect colors, or to prevent opponent from that.
I agree, Me, as a Diplomat – give money to opponent ,but chance that in next round I will have a thief is quite small (just my experience). I like Diplomat because of speeding up game, but after several games, warlord seems to be better choice for 2-3pl.game.
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Robin Zigmond
United Kingdom
Durham
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I can't actually help with your question, as I've never played with the expansion characters. But I'm surprised no-one has yet asked why you feel the need to make these alterations. (Not that I have any problem with you doing so if you prefer, of course - it's your game and you should do it whichever way gives you most enjoyment. But I'm curious.) 3 players is actually my favourite number for citadels, and I think it works very well played as in the rulebook. Sure, the player choosing the assassin or thief is guaranteed to kill/steal from someone, but usually there's only 1 of the other 2 players you really want to do it from. Assassination gives no benefit to the player doing it, so is only really a help if you're trying to target a player who's doing too well. And it's rare that both other players will be sitting on a pile of money, meaning that the thief often cares quite a lot who he steals from.
I certainly don't find the 3-player game anywhere near as unbalanced as the 2-player version, in which the assassin becomes pretty much always a must-pick - with only 1 opponent, a successful assassination will always boost your chances despite it not giving you any direct benefits. (PS: I still like citadels with 2 players, just not as much as with 3 or 4, because you know the first player to pick can rarely afford to not take the assassin, if he's there.)
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ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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robinz wrote: I can't actually help with your question, as I've never played with the expansion characters. But I'm surprised no-one has yet asked why you feel the need to make these alterations. (Not that I have any problem with you doing so if you prefer, of course - it's your game and you should do it whichever way gives you most enjoyment. But I'm curious.) 3 players is actually my favourite number for citadels, and I think it works very well played as in the rulebook. Sure, the player choosing the assassin or thief is guaranteed to kill/steal from someone, but usually there's only 1 of the other 2 players you really want to do it from. Assassination gives no benefit to the player doing it, so is only really a help if you're trying to target a player who's doing too well. And it's rare that both other players will be sitting on a pile of money, meaning that the thief often cares quite a lot who he steals from.
I certainly don't find the 3-player game anywhere near as unbalanced as the 2-player version, in which the assassin becomes pretty much always a must-pick - with only 1 opponent, a successful assassination will always boost your chances despite it not giving you any direct benefits. (PS: I still like citadels with 2 players, just not as much as with 3 or 4, because you know the first player to pick can rarely afford to not take the assassin, if he's there.) My variant for 3p games is to use 9 characters, unlike many i know who are actually OK with just 8 char cards. I like 9 b/c that extra char does indeed make it harder for the Thief and Ass.
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