Ludere Cum Dignitate
United States
Carrollton
Texas
"[hyperbole], it's pretty much the best and most exceptional and effective way of expressing oneself all the time ever." ~MScrivner
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Firstly there is nothing wrong with being offended by a theme and wanting to communicate that offense so that others can be aware of the potentially controversial theme. Some of the comments from the games defenders on other posts seem a bit patronizing and that's pretty uncool.
Having said that I played this for the first time and was not bothered by the theme at all. I think that the themes contraversy was definetaly over blown. It is far less thematic then Claustrophobia (IMO) and because of that I think that it is less likely to offend.
Honestly it felt only slightly more thematic then Dominion to me. It's easy to look pass the board art and the unpainted figures and see the strategy and the rules. I don't think that the different player powers increase the thematic elements in any major way either. That is in no way negative for me since theme has never been as important for me as long as a game isn't abstract and has at least painted on theme I am good.
Thematic gamers may disagree with me and I may be dead wrong from their perspective. I tend to like euro's. Perhaps I wouldn't know theme if it hit me square in the face with all the intense chaotic strength of Khorne the Chaos Power of War.
Either way... If you want my two cents, this games theme is not that offencive because after reading the flavor text and introducing the "Chaos Powers." Who your characters are and what they are supposedly doing to the land is lost to the very interesting strategic choices and well crafted mechanics of this masterfully designed game.
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Ed Bradley
United Kingdom
Haverhill
Suffolk
The best things in life aren't things.
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It's pantomime evil.
There's no need for anyone to take it too seriously 
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Stephen Allen
Australia
Newcastle
NSW
Favourite SF author - Iain M Banks.
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I've met people who are put off by the theme, but liked the game after playing it.
If I was to re-theme it, I would make make it an Election game. The four(five) gods would be political parties etc.
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Jordan Alexander
United Kingdom
Accrington
Lancashire
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some_guy wrote: I've met people who are put off by the theme, but liked the game after playing it.
If I was to re-theme it, I would make make it an Election game. The four(five) gods would be political parties etc.
Wouldnt that be making the player more evil?
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Joel Schuster
Germany
Bretten
Baden-Württemberg
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As for a christian theme, consider thinking of this as crusading and evangelizing campaign.
Cultists are missionary monks that you send to regions in order to force the locals convert to your religion.
Draconic laws and sanctions are issued in the form of chaos cards. Sent the inquisition (warriors) or your god himself (demon) if that is not enough.
Now you have your christian game
I wonder what is more evil, the original theme or the christian one 
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Andrew Hurp
United Kingdom
Aldershot
Hampshire
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I think the best part of the theme is that anyone who is actually going to be offended by this theme is someone who I don't want to socialise with, or indeed, have anywhere near my family. Especially not spoiling this excellent game (my partners favourite).
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Jack
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
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It's pretend.
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Ludere Cum Dignitate
United States
Carrollton
Texas
"[hyperbole], it's pretty much the best and most exceptional and effective way of expressing oneself all the time ever." ~MScrivner
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Fwing wrote: It's pantomime evil. There's no need for anyone to take it too seriously
I agree. It didn't bother me and I see why some would be bothered but just don't think it's too big of a deal. Everyone has to use their own judgement though.
Umbratus wrote: As for a christian theme, consider thinking of this as crusading and evangelizing campaign. Cultists are missionary monks that you send to regions in order to force the locals convert to your religion. Draconic laws and sanctions are issued in the form of chaos cards. Sent the inquisition (warriors) or your god himself (demon) if that is not enough. Now you have your christian game I wonder what is more evil, the original theme or the christian one
That wouldn't be a Christian theme that would be the same theme. Pagan deities vying For power in unpleasant ways isn't Christian at all it's pagan and is this theme exactly. Thinking that your theme idea would be a Christian theme is just plain silly. 
Fabs wrote: I think the best part of the theme is that anyone who is actually going to be offended by this theme is someone who I don't want to socialise with, or indeed, have anywhere near my family. Especially not spoiling this excellent game (my partners favourite).
Well that's unfortunate. You may miss out on some very nice relationships. Oh well, you'll never know... 
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Umbratus wrote: As for a christian theme, consider thinking of this as crusading and evangelizing campaign. .. I wonder what is more evil, the original theme or the christian one
Thanks this made my day. Sometimes more religious types (of whatever religion) seem to forget their own past.
/T
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Tiago Nunes
Portugal
Odivelas
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Umbratus wrote: As for a christian theme, consider thinking of this as crusading and evangelizing campaign. Cultists are missionary monks that you send to regions in order to force the locals convert to your religion. Draconic laws and sanctions are issued in the form of chaos cards. Sent the inquisition (warriors) or your god himself (demon) if that is not enough. Now you have your christian game I wonder what is more evil, the original theme or the christian one
That was just awesome. And seeing as I get bombarded everyday by 2 or 3 different god worshipping religions this would't be far from the truth.
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Andrew Hurp
United Kingdom
Aldershot
Hampshire
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Redward wrote: Fabs wrote: I think the best part of the theme is that anyone who is actually going to be offended by this theme is someone who I don't want to socialise with, or indeed, have anywhere near my family. Especially not spoiling this excellent game (my partners favourite). Well that's unfortunate. You may miss out on some very nice relationships. Oh well, you'll never know...
Nope. Over 40 years experience of life has all confirmed to me that someone who can find something so trivial as genuinely obscene, would be an unrewarding relationship.
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Ludere Cum Dignitate
United States
Carrollton
Texas
"[hyperbole], it's pretty much the best and most exceptional and effective way of expressing oneself all the time ever." ~MScrivner
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ThomasLund wrote: Umbratus wrote: As for a christian theme, consider thinking of this as crusading and evangelizing campaign. .. I wonder what is more evil, the original theme or the christian one Thanks this made my day. Sometimes more religious types (of whatever religion) seem to forget their own past. /T
Anyone who would attempt to force conversion and use draconic laws and sanctions is not acting as a Christian follower of Christ but in their own interest. Some historical group who behaved in an evil manner may call themselves Christians but that doesn't mean that they have anything to do with my past.
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Pedro Pereira
Portugal
Guimaraes
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Redward wrote: Firstly there is nothing wrong with being offended by a theme
If this were to be true, you wouldn't have to write it...
Redward wrote: Some of the comments from the games defenders on other posts seem a bit patronizing and that's pretty uncool.
Apparently, a matter of religious perspective...
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Miljenko Murkovic
Croatia
Zagreb
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Why do you think Christians are likely being offended by this game? I just can't understand connection you are making? Is there something in a Bible that is preventing you from playing bad character in a GAME?? Do you think you are a bad person if you pretend to be one in a GAME?? This is just sill to me... Do you think people that are offended are also offended by WWII games? Playing Hitler is also offensive, right? Or taking Assassin character in Citadels??
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James
United States
Midlothian
Virginia
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miljenko wrote: Why do you think Christians are likely being offended by this game? I just can't understand connection you are making? Is there something in a Bible that is preventing you from playing bad character in a GAME?? Do you think you are a bad person if you pretend to be one in a GAME?? This is just sill to me... Do you think people that are offended are also offended by WWII games? Playing Hitler is also offensive, right? Or taking Assassin character in Citadels??
I agree with you about why I couldn't imagine finding myself being offended by a game like this. It IS pretend. Still, you shouldn't have to look very long on BGG to find people offended by a game's theme. I think Redward was just making space for people who care not to play CitOW themselves because it MIGHT for them seem to trivialize an issue for them they might be sensitive about for whatever reason. He also suggests that it isn't cool if they try to force those sensitivities to be respected in the tastes of others. It's all about making space for others to exist here.
Personally, I like dark themes in games: Arkham Horror, Claustrophobia and CitOW. I also think your comparison to violence in other contexts is a useful one: why would one offended by these not also get offended by Axis and Allies? The only game element that gives me slight pause is the torture mechanic in Earth Reborn but I love the game so much I have to overlook my squeamishness about it.
The only point of Redward's I disagree with is his suggestion that the theme bleeds off (ahem). I find CitOW to be one of the most successful marriages of theme and mechanic ever. As you're playing each god, it FEELS like that particular god. Moreover, you are rewarded by acting thematically within the game (running away from Khorne, trying to stop the spread of Nurgle, etc.). The mechanics are both informed by the theme and generate it.
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Mark Bigney
United States
Cambridge
Massachusetts
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I am deeply offended every time I see someone type contraversy. When will my feelings be respected?
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Joel Schuster
Germany
Bretten
Baden-Württemberg
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It is obvious why some Christians are bothered by this games theme.
Guilty conscience for being reminded of their evil past
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James
United States
Midlothian
Virginia
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Gyges wrote: I am deeply offended every time I see someone type contraversy. When will my feelings be respected?
Sandinista microbadge?
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Michael Jordal
United States
Austin
Minnesota
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I think this needs moved to RSP ASAP
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Pedro Pereira
Portugal
Guimaraes
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Umbratus wrote: Guilty conscience for being reminded of their evil past
Seems to be the only plausible explanation to this contraversy controversy.
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Pedro Pereira
Portugal
Guimaraes
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Brother Jim wrote: I think his OP was actually refreshingly civil on this issue, don't you?
Feels more unrefreshingly redundant to me... but then again... no one asked for my opinion...
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David Tolin
United States
Beaumont
Texas
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What an incredibly depressing thread...
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Aaron Bohm
United States
Appleton
Wisconsin
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On this topic particularly, in case any of you were wondering...
Geekdo Community Rules
Community Rules
The following are prohibited:
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Raising issues of religion, sex, or politics outside of the designated Religion, Sex, and Politics forum
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Personal attacks, but not limited to:
Statements that abuse, harass, mock, insult, stalk, demean, threaten, or otherwise belittle another user, directly or indirectly, explicitly or implicitly, even if the other user started it, and even if you think the other user deserves it.
...
I believe the OP was specifically asking if people thought Chaos in the Old World theme would be offensive to someone with Christian sensativities, if this thread could keep the discussion to along these lines that would be a good idea and not use it as a venue for religion bashing.
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Richard Morris
Scotland
Harrogate
North Yorkshire
Join the BGG Folding @Home Team !!
This user had more :gg: than sense
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OK, well in what is, I hope, the right spirit, I will go back and delete my posts. Of course, that will only be effective if those that quote it, or any replies to it, do the same.
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"[hyperbole], it's pretty much the best and most exceptional and effective way of expressing oneself all the time ever." ~MScrivner
