Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
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Excuse the slightly haphazard nature of the below notes, as they are just that - notes I jotted down without much regard to structure.
Basically, the below is in an effort to add more interesting decisions and cooperation into the game, as well as make it harder.
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Lay out 9 adventures instead of 6, in a 3x3 grid, forming the board. Investigators may now only move to adjacent adventures when they move (diagonals allowed), though may move as many spaces as they wish in 1 turn, both before and after attempting an adventure (though must still attempt one and only one adventure per turn).
Time is now a measure of player actions. The clock advances by one hour each time an investigator:
- Moves 1 space
- Rolls his dice pool
Investigators may move to and from the museum entrance from anywhere on the board. Using any of the entrance’s abilities advances the clock by 3 hours.
When an investigator attempts an adventure, their initial dice pool is 5 green dice (instead of 6). Players still remove 1 die from their dice pool each time they fail a task. However, such removed dice are not permanently removed from any future attempts (as in the original rules) - they may be brought back into the player’s dice pool through use of cards and clue tokens.
Clue tokens now add 1 green die to a player’s dice pool. Cards and clue tokens can now be played at any point during the attempt of an adventure rather than only at the beginning.
Most cards (except Allies, which always play for free) now also have an “activation icon” on them and may only be played by assigning a die that has just been rolled to “activate” the card. The assigned die may not be used to complete a task this roll, but is added back into the dice pool next roll. Any die the activated card may provide is added to your dice pool next roll. The complete list of cards and their activation icons are:
Common Items
Shotgun, Dynamite - Terror
.45 Automatic, .38 Revolver, Knife, Axe - Peril
Tommy Gun - Peril AND Terror
Old Journal - 1+ investigation
Lucky Cigarette Case, Whiskey, Food, Lantern - None (play for free)
Unique Items
Cultes des Goules, Nameless Cults, Book of Dzyan - Lore AND 1+ investigation
Necronomicon - Lore AND 2+ investigation
The King in Yellow - 2+ investigation
Sword of Glory - Lore AND Peril
Blue Watcher of the Pyramid - Peril OR Terror
Lamp of Alhazred - Peril AND 1+ investigation
Alien Statue - Lore AND 3+ investigation
Flute of the Outer Gods - Lore AND Peril
Healing Stone - None (play for free)
Ruby of R’lyeh - Lore
Spells work slightly differently. A player may attempt to cast one spell before any task attempt by rolling his current dice pool (this counts as a roll of the dice and advances the clock by 1 hour). If no Lore icons are showing, the spell is not cast and the card returns to its owner’s hand. If any Lore icons are showing, the spell is successfully cast. However, if the spell is cast and any Terror icons are showing, the investigator loses 1 sanity. The player then proceeds to attempt the next task (with the same number of dice) and must place 1 die rolled in this task attempt on the spell, otherwise it fizzles and is discarded. Active spells are kept in front of the investigator and dice on them are only usable by investigators located on the same adventure.
Whenever an investigator fails a task (rather than the adventure as a whole) he suffers the penalty as shown on the adventure card. A player may give up attempting an adventure at any time.
Abilities may only target valid targets located in the investigator’s current adventure. For example, ‘Flute of the Outer Gods’ may only destroy monsters on your current adventure (rather than anywhere). However, players other than the active player that are in the active player’s location may play cards from their hand during the active player’s turn (with the active player’s permission) in order to help him/her. Additionally, the amount of dice that can be assigned to focusing/assisting is unlimited per turn (though still limited to one die per investigator). Focused/Assisted dice can be removed from the investigator at any time by the investigator holding it. Lastly, investigators can even ‘carry’ focused/assisted dice between adventures (though obviously this means the die is unavailable to be rolled by anyone else until it is released).
If an adventure lists an Other World card as its reward, the Other World card replaces the original adventure on the ‘board’. When the Other World adventure is resolved, it is replaced by a normal adventure again.
A Mythos card is drawn at the end of any player’s turn in which the clock reached or passed midnight.
Joe Diamond's ability is changed to read: "Clue tokens add 2 green dice to your dice pool (instead of 1)."
Jenny Barnes' ability is changed to read: "You may discard any 3 cards to add the red and yellow dice to your dice pool."
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Paul Leigh
United Kingdom
Bedale
North Yorkshire
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Crikey. That's quite a set of variants. They sound good though and well worth a shot.
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Steve Duff
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
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Essentially, it's an entire new game.
I wish you had explained more about what you found disappointing about the actual game, and whether you were actually playing the game it was intended to be played, now that the faq is out.
I do like the concept of time being used to move around, that's one thing the game is missing. It would also help the situation where it's almost always the same character that advances to midnight.
But I'm still going to be the curmudgeon who insists the actual game doesn't need any fixing, as long as you play properly by the faq.
bleached_lizard wrote: Cards and clue tokens can now be played at any point during the attempt of an adventure rather than only at the beginning.
Why do you say "now"? That's the normal rule.
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Justaguy Gaming
United States
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Interesting ideas, however, some of these rules would drive me nuts. There are a few ideas here that I do use to some extent. However, the change to the clue tokens/items/spells, application of penalties, and the CONSTANT clock turning seems like more process and frustration just to do the most simple actions. Not to mention I think it would drag the game on far longer than you'd want.
I would play a few games solo and implement changes slowly to see how they work for you.
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Tamas Csepregi
Hungary
Budapest
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
I do like the concept of time being used to move around, that's one thing the game is missing. It would also help the situation where it's almost always the same character that advances to midnight.
Only if 4 or 8 players are playing. Or a solo investigator, in which case... 
(edit: correcting quote code)
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Paul S
United Kingdom
DARK IN HERE, ISN'T IT?
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Some very thematic ideas, but going to make it v difficult.
Essentially, we lose a green dice, nerf clues, items and spells, and add more clock movements.
If I want to lose that badly, I'll dig out Ghost Stories 
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Paul Leigh
United Kingdom
Bedale
North Yorkshire
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At the moment, we are using the 'add a doom token at midnight' variant suggested many times elsewhere. It has changed the game quite a lot. The difficult level has changed from what I would consider easy to challenging.
Our games now feel like a race against time.
I will experiment with the ideas suggested here though.
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
Overtext pending moderation...
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote: Essentially, it's an entire new game.
I wish you had explained more about what you found disappointing about the actual game, and whether you were actually playing the game it was intended to be played, now that the faq is out.
Well, pretty much just what is implicit from what I stated at the beginning of my OP: that there are few meaningful decisions (pretty much just which adventure to attempt), almost no cooperation aspect (the investigators can't even trade items) and it's ridiculously easy. We also think it's a bit silly that a lantern and a gun are considered exactly the same mechanically by the game (part of the reason for the extensive changes to how items are played).
Quote: I do like the concept of time being used to move around, that's one thing the game is missing. It would also help the situation where it's almost always the same character that advances to midnight.
That wasn't so much the issue I was trying to fix. It was more that I needed the clock to speed up a bit, but wanted it to be based on player decisions rather than (as someone else suggests above) just adding extra doom tokens to the GOO. My first idea was to have the amount of time passing based on how many adventures are in play (with adventures being removed when they are completed and new ones added by some other method), but quickly realised that the game when then fall into the same problem Arkham Horror has of becoming easier the better you perform at it. So I decided to simply make it a player actions tracker.
Quote: But I'm still going to be the curmudgeon who insists the actual game doesn't need any fixing, as long as you play properly by the faq. bleached_lizard wrote: Cards and clue tokens can now be played at any point during the attempt of an adventure rather than only at the beginning. Why do you say "now"? That's the normal rule.
Oops - you're right. But in the original rules there is no reason not to play your items right at the beginning, so it doesn't really make a difference.
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
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dieseledge wrote: Interesting ideas, however, some of these rules would drive me nuts. There are a few ideas here that I do use to some extent. However, the change to the clue tokens/items/spells, application of penalties, and the CONSTANT clock turning seems like more process and frustration just to do the most simple actions. Not to mention I think it would drag the game on far longer than you'd want.
I think the clock thing will have to be done by another player while the active player takes their turn.
The change to clue tokens was pretty much essential, as we quickly realised that clues were better than unique items (adding one die verses doubling your dice, essentially) yet the costing for each was way off (apparently the game values clues at 1 trophy but unique items at 3 trophies).
Quote: I would play a few games solo and implement changes slowly to see how they work for you.
Exactly what I plan on doing.
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
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Beloch wrote: Some very thematic ideas, but going to make it v difficult. Essentially, we lose a green dice, nerf clues, items and spells, and add more clock movements. If I want to lose that badly, I'll dig out Ghost Stories
You forgot these parts:
Dice pool can be maintained at a higher level
Investigators can play cards on each other's turns
Multiple investigators can assist in one turn
Reserved dice can be used between adventures
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
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I think I might also add this:
If your investigator is reduced to 0 stamina, he loses half of his common items and unique items and is moved to the entrance with 1 stamina remaining.
If your investigator is reduced to 0 sanity, he loses half of his clues and spells and is moved to the entrance with 1 sanity remaining.
In either case, do NOT add a doom token to the doom track.
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Hahaha, didn't see this comming...
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
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Mr Skeletor wrote: Hahaha, didn't see this comming...
I'm full of surprises, eh?
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Justaguy Gaming
United States
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bleached_lizard wrote: I think I might also add this:
If your investigator is reduced to 0 stamina, he loses half of his common items and unique items and is moved to the entrance with 1 stamina remaining.
If your investigator is reduced to 0 sanity, he loses half of his clues and spells and is moved to the entrance with 1 sanity remaining.
In either case, do NOT add a doom token to the doom track.
I like this. I have considered something like it, because I'm not a fan of the die and get rewarded consequence. If you are struggling early and die, it's like a reset button, especially, if you dislike your character. However, I would suggest to you, a rounding up or down the divided number of items as people will have an odd number of items at times.
Now, your variant is probably more difficult, but if I personally put this sort of thing into my rules, the doom token would stay, and all but 4 trophies are lost so they can spend a turn to heal. They must take a turn to heal at the entrance and any remaining trophies are removed. I may still consider it, because the way characters deaths are handled now is like an interruption in the flow of the game. STOP, remove and return all the character cards, bits, and items/trophies THEN setup a new character. It's a bit annoying because I like to set aside as much of the game as possible to free up room on the table. I even have a black ashtray (that we have never used or will use now lol) for monster tokens and a tiny tackle box for all the bits.
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
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dieseledge wrote: bleached_lizard wrote: I think I might also add this:
If your investigator is reduced to 0 stamina, he loses half of his common items and unique items and is moved to the entrance with 1 stamina remaining.
If your investigator is reduced to 0 sanity, he loses half of his clues and spells and is moved to the entrance with 1 sanity remaining.
In either case, do NOT add a doom token to the doom track. I like this. I have considered something like it, because I'm not a fan of the die and get rewarded consequence. If you are struggling early and die, it's like a reset button, especially, if you dislike your character. However, I would suggest to you, a rounding up or down the divided number of items as people will have an odd number of items at times.
I disagree. In the case of an odd number of items, players should rip a card they hold in half and keep one of the halves (randomly chosen).
Or, alternatively, round up. 
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Justaguy Gaming
United States
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I would almost do that just to see the reaction on the player's face.
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Matt Barnes
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
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I just got the game, and have only played once. We won the first game, but it looks like we were doing some things wrong after reading the errata. It also looks like there is at least one rule that you are not doing correctly, making the game easier to begin with.
I need to get a few more plays in, but after playing Ghost Stories many times, this seems too easy, but we'll see.
Reading these "changed rules", many of them seem more of a PITA to keep track of than actually making it more difficult. Moving the clock every time you do something? No thanks.
And if all these rules were implemented, it seems like it would be incredibly difficult to win at all.
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
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MattVid wrote: I just got the game, and have only played once. We won the first game, but it looks like we were doing some things wrong after reading the errata. It also looks like there is at least one rule that you are not doing correctly, making the game easier to begin with.
Which one?
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
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MattVid wrote: I just got the game, and have only played once. We won the first game, but it looks like we were doing some things wrong after reading the errata. It also looks like there is at least one rule that you are not doing correctly, making the game easier to begin with.
I need to get a few more plays in, but after playing Ghost Stories many times, this seems too easy, but we'll see.
Reading these "changed rules", many of them seem more of a PITA to keep track of than actually making it more difficult. Moving the clock every time you do something? No thanks.
Also, I'm hoping it will work such that you don't actually have to move the clock before every action you take. Hopefully players will be able to keep track of things and just total their action at the end of their turn. Or alternatively, you get the player who went before you to keep track of the time during your turn.
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
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Went ahead and created the cards...
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
Overtext pending moderation...
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Finally had the opportunity to try this out after printing out and cutting up all the cards. A few points from the first playtest:
1) Yes, I kept forgetting to move the clock (as even I expected), but it was pretty easy to figure out a way to total the amount of hours you'd spent on an adventure and add the hours to the clock once you'd finished. Just total:
- the number of tasks you'd completed.
- the number of sanity/stamina you'd lost.
To keep it easy, I will remove the time cost to cast spells and instead say that you lose sanity upon rolling a terror symbol whether you were successful or not.
2) The 'add one doom token' penalty is *way* too strong if you're doing it every time you fail a task. This symbol now means "add two hours to the clock".
3) I found that seeing as repeated trips to the entrance were necessary to keep up sanity/stamina, it would be better if the player can perform all three options at the entrance when he visits there. However, they must be performed in order, left to right (they are all still optional, however).
4) I was playing solo, so one important element was missing: other players assisting (and the whole cooperative aspect in general). However, the ability to carry dice between adventures was very interesting, and interacted well with the cost to play cards.
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Dave Maynor
United States
Spokane
Washington
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With any of these new rules.... not just the ones in this post... this game is still very random. Choose Cthulhu as your GOO, take investigators with 3's for Stamina or Sanity, and make sure your first few Mythos cards add doom or cause damage. If you have a few adventures with midnight effects also, you can see a party wipe before the first player even gets to choose where to move.
This isn't common, or even very likely. But it is possible. So factor all that in with optional rules also. Some card layouts are near impossible in this game, and that's before you even factor good or bad dice luck.
I do think the game is a bit too easy to win. However, there is still the chance that no matter what you do, you are doomed. It happens less here than in Arkham Horror, sure. But with so many elements random, you have to leave room for die rolls and card flips to change things one way or the other. If you increase the base difficulty, you make those harder flips entirely unwinnable. Not just tough, but impossible.
I think removing easier cards form the mythos deck, and some of the perceived easier adventures, might be a better way to increase difficulty without putting bad flips out of reach. Maybe even posting adventure deck lists that have to be played in order.
But again, the abilities on different investigators also make some things that are easier a bit more difficult, and some of the tough adventures a piece of cake. I just think there are way too many variables to not err on the side of caution.
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
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i3ullseye wrote: With any of these new rules.... not just the ones in this post... this game is still very random. Choose Cthulhu as your GOO, take investigators with 3's for Stamina or Sanity, and make sure your first few Mythos cards add doom or cause damage. If you have a few adventures with midnight effects also, you can see a party wipe before the first player even gets to choose where to move.
This isn't common, or even very likely. But it is possible. So factor all that in with optional rules also. Some card layouts are near impossible in this game, and that's before you even factor good or bad dice luck.
I do think the game is a bit too easy to win. However, there is still the chance that no matter what you do, you are doomed. It happens less here than in Arkham Horror, sure. But with so many elements random, you have to leave room for die rolls and card flips to change things one way or the other. If you increase the base difficulty, you make those harder flips entirely unwinnable. Not just tough, but impossible.
I think removing easier cards form the mythos deck, and some of the perceived easier adventures, might be a better way to increase difficulty without putting bad flips out of reach. Maybe even posting adventure deck lists that have to be played in order.
But again, the abilities on different investigators also make some things that are easier a bit more difficult, and some of the tough adventures a piece of cake. I just think there are way too many variables to not err on the side of caution.
I disagree. I would rather have a game where the tip of the bell curve gives me a challenging game, with the edge being impossible, rather than a game where the edge gives me a challenging game and the tip give me a lame one.
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Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
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Had the opportunity to play this two player today, and we decided the following amendments should be implemented:
When you run out of sanity/stamina, you are moved to the entrance with the relevant attribute refilled to maximum.
We reverted back to the original (variant) system of simply incrementing the clock one hour for each roll of the dice (not including spell cast attempts). Using the task/penalties method I described a few posts up resulted in some strange outcomes at times, and we found it really wasn't all that hard to keep track of how many times you'd rolled the dice and just totalled it at the end.
When an investigator is knocked out/driven insane, they lose any die they may be carrying (it returns to the supply).
Now, investigators that are assisting may only take and reserve a die from a roll that results in a task being completed (rather than from a failed dice roll). Focusing still only works on failed dice rolls.
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Aurelio Agustin
Venezuela
San Diego
Carabobo
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are you planing to create some kind of "rulebook" for your variant once it's fully playtested? it's getting kind of hard to track the changes you are making, plus it would be nice to have something in paper to check when playing.
excellent work by the way.
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Posted Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:25 pm
