David Lame
United States
Michigan
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russ wrote: Have you tried google ads for keywords like "chess", "abstract game", "abstract strategy game" etc? (That's not a recommendation for or against, just a curious brain-storming question.) 
The Facebook experiment is over, for now. It was sufficiently successful that I will probably run some ads for a few days in advance of my next tournament.
The only ads that generated significant interest were the ads for my Chess page or a specific tournament, targeted at Chess players. The Facebook abstract strategy ad garnered one lone click after more than 10,000 views. The "offbeat competitions" ad got two clicks, on a lot smaller number of views. There were a handful of clicks by Chess players on the Chess960 target, including generating one "like". That's an encouraging sign. We'll see. Other than that, all the "likes" came from specifically Chess ads.
I do think I'll give google a try. In the past, I found it too expensive, but I think they've improved their targeting, and there is no minimum daily budget. I had thought there was. If I buy the rights to the term "Chess960" from I.P. addresses in Michigan, it's a safe bet that anyone who sees the ad will be at least moderately interested, and I doubt that there will be a lot of competition for that ad space, so it should be cheap. We'll see.
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Robert Lafayette
United States
California
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Meadmaker wrote:
The most popular are Magic and Warhammer. Why? Because those games are most popular? That has something to do with it, but that's not the major reason. The major reason is that those games carry with them a continuous revenue stream in the form of more booster packs and more miniatures. D&D or other role playing games generate sales of modules and miniatures as well.
For fifty bucks, you can get a chessboard, pieces, and clock, and never spend another dime. There aren't any expansion sets for Chess. Even if you are into miscellaneous abstracts, at best you'll buy a new game once in a while. If you really get into a game, be it Chess, Arimaa, or Gipf, you'll spend a lot of time focused on that particular game. No money for game store owners.
I have to disagree. They wouldn't carry them if they didn't sell. Just because other products make more money, doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to diversify. You putting up a flyer or playing some abstracts at the store is not going to impede the people that are there to just play Warhammer or Magic, it's only going to bring in more customers. Even if those customers aren't spending as much as the Warhammer-Magic guys, they're still customers that can spend money. Also, just because you can be good with a single game set, that doesn't mean you won't want to buy additional sets for friends or upgrade to nicer quality, etc.
This is off-topic, so I'll leave it at that.
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Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny ÅšlÄ…sk
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mccann51 wrote: I have to disagree. They wouldn't carry them if they didn't sell. Just because other products make more money, doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to diversify. You putting up a flyer or playing some abstracts at the store is not going to impede the people that are there to just play Warhammer or Magic, it's only going to bring in more customers.
It probably depends on the attitude of the specific store owner. If they are just focused on the hot cash cow product of the moment, then they probably don't want chess players taking up "valuable space". If they have a broader and longer term view, then they probably welcome all kinds of gamers.
E.g. one of the great game stores I know of (Great Hall in Austin) has not only Magic and Warhammer type stuff but also has a weekly evening for chess club meetings and a weekly evening for go club meetings, plus they sell wargames, euros, ameritrash, party games, poker, dominoes, and so on. I.e. they sell all kinds of games.
FWIW they also sell chess and go strategy books, problem books, clocks, etc. I.e. while it's true that there are no (serious widely desired) expansions per se for chess or go, there are nonetheless lots of additional things an enthusiastic chess or go player might buy.
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David Lame
United States
Michigan
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russ wrote: mccann51 wrote: I have to disagree. They wouldn't carry them if they didn't sell. Just because other products make more money, doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to diversify. You putting up a flyer or playing some abstracts at the store is not going to impede the people that are there to just play Warhammer or Magic, it's only going to bring in more customers. It probably depends on the attitude of the specific store owner.
Indeed. There's a new game store in Detroit that is very Chess-friendly, actually holding lessons and such, and I have spoken to the owner about other abstracts. Although he wasn't super excited about it, he was somewhat encouraging.
Meanwhile, I have started a google ad campaign. It hasn't actually started running yet, having just been submitted this morning. It's based on the keywords "Chess960",
"fischer random chess", "chess variants", "abstract strategy game" and "abstract strategy games". It states there will be a Chess960 tournament in Auburn Hills on April 28, and directs people to this page:
http://gamesinmichigan.com/chessforcharity/chess960.htm
There's one thing that confuses me greatly, though. Naturally, after I submitted an ad, I typed in the keywords to see if it showed up, and I realized there were no ads at all on my google page,for anything I typed in. What the heck is google up to?
ETA: I tried a few new google searches, and some, but not all of them, showed a few more ads. There are definitely fewer than I'm used to seeing. Meanwhile, my own ad got disapproved for reasons that escape me, but I'm trying to fix the problem.
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Steven Mitchell
United States
New York
New York
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sirius23 wrote: Now I have to rant a bit, and this is not relevant to you but... If you list history as a hobby or an interest on your FB profile, you have automatically 'liked' the History Channel.
Not true. Just make sure you select the Interest 'History', instead of the Television Network 'History'. See here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/History/106066639425552
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M C
United States
Honolulu
HI
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patton1138 wrote: sirius23 wrote: Now I have to rant a bit, and this is not relevant to you but... If you list history as a hobby or an interest on your FB profile, you have automatically 'liked' the History Channel. Not true. Just make sure you select the Interest 'History', instead of the Television Network 'History'. See here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/History/106066639425552
Look again. Yes, that is the one I selected. It is the history channel. They even try to sell me History channel stuff.
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Alfred Wallace
United States
State College
Pennsylvania
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I just looked at that link, and precisely nothing I see is about or by the History Channel. The ads are the same BS I've been getting for every other page I look at; my favorite is for learning monster truck repair.
I'll note that a lot of the "content" is posts from my friends and other "liked" pages aggregated together that mention the word "history," even irrelevantly.
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M C
United States
Honolulu
HI
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Well each time they post they post a sources link. that link looks like this
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: MARCH 18
Source: histv.co
as you might guess, all links go to the history channel. Check it out. EVERY LINK.
further more, they sell products on this page. Only products made by the histroy channel, and they direct to the history channel store. for example, the March 12th post :
History
Yesterday we reached 9 million HISTORY fans on Facebook! To thank you, we offfered ALL History classics for $9.99 AND 99 cent shipping at the shop. We apologize, our promo code wasn't working yesterday, but we fixed it! Enter 9MMFANS at checkout to apply discount. This Facebook exclusive offer is good for 24 hours and ends tomorrow at 4:30 p.m. ET http://bit.ly/zPUsYh
History Classics | Subjects | Official History Channel Store
Source: histv.co
Notice the Official History Channel Store?
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Steven Mitchell
United States
New York
New York
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sirius23 wrote: Well each time they post they post a sources link. that link looks like this
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: MARCH 18
Source: histv.co
What on earth are you talking about?!? There's no wall; there are no posts; there are no sources links. 'They' don't post anything there... The only content on the page is what is pulled from Wikipedia and what is culled from a cross-section of facebook users mentioning 'history' in status updates.
???
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Alfred Wallace
United States
State College
Pennsylvania
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I'm really sorry, but I just clicked that link again and I don't see any of that. I even searched the page for "channel." I think it's producing different content for us. I just took a PDF of it that's really ugly but will show you what material I have on there. PM me your email if you want.
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Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny ÅšlÄ…sk
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Sounds like Good Reason #572 Why I Don't Have A Facebook Account!
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Alfred Wallace
United States
State College
Pennsylvania
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Question. Are you looking at this page:
https://www.facebook.com/History?sk=wall
or this one:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/History/106066639425552
Also, the second link there will have History Channel stuff on there if you for some reason "liked" the History Channel (i.e., the first link).
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Alfred Wallace
United States
State College
Pennsylvania
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russ wrote: Sounds like Good Reason #572 Why I Don't Have A Facebook Account!
It's actually pretty fun except when it's completely maddening.
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M C
United States
Honolulu
HI
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Ah I see the problem. Duh. If you have liked the history channel, 'history' shows pretty much only history channel.
Anyway, sorry again to derailing the thread.
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David Lame
United States
Michigan
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After 48 hours, the number of impressions is ---- 2.
I know that one of those was me. I'm not sure about the other one.
But so far, it's free.
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David Lame
United States
Michigan
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Last night I added Shogi, Xiangqi and Khet to the search terms.
One of the cool things about this is that I can get some sort of feel for how often certain search terms are used. Since my terms are so obscure, my ad will probably be shown whenever they are searched.
As of today, my impression count jumped to 23, of which 16 were for Shogi and five for Khet.
No clicks yet. I decided to add the "gipf" series names and see what might happen there.
Any other suggestions?
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Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny ÅšlÄ…sk
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Meadmaker wrote: Last night I added Shogi, Xiangqi and Khet to the search terms.
Any other suggestions?
Arimaa.
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David Lame
United States
Michigan
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russ wrote: Meadmaker wrote: Last night I added Shogi, Xiangqi and Khet to the search terms.
Any other suggestions? Arimaa.
Got it. (Along with Aarima, for people who can't remember which end has the double a.) No hits yet.
I also decided to add some Chess related terms. You can specify a hit on a phrase, so I added "chess tournaments", "chess tournament", and "michigan chess", figuring that those might be likely search terms for people specifically looking for over the board play, and there are a lot more people looking for Chess tournaments than for Chess960 tournaments. The Chess related terms are some of the most frequently displayed, and I notice that my ad is not usually number 1 on the list for those terms.
Among the other terms, Shogi is the best performer with 10 impressions today.
I did have one click from "chess tournaments", so that cost me $0.47. No email expressing interest, though.
Unfortunately, most abstracts have names that are common English words. If I were to specify "Cannon" as a search term, I would get a lot of people looking up artillery, and they might just click on my ad wondering what the heck a Chess960 was, but they wouldn't be really interested in it. However, if someone types in Tzaar, they're probably looking for the game. (For what it's worth, someone did, in fact, type in Tzaar. It had one impression.) That means that at the least, it's someone interested in "brain games", and there might be some crossover interest in Chess960, or maybe just in regular Chess.
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Tony Bosca
United States
Warren
Michigan
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Another suggestion might be backgammon.
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David Lame
United States
Michigan
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blakstar wrote: Another suggestion might be backgammon.
I decided that backgammon was sufficiently popular by itself that it was a poor target. People looking for backgammon in a search probably really are looking for backgammon. They might click my ad out of curiousity if they happen to see it, but they probably aren't all that interested in Chess960 or in abstract strategy games as a class. The consequence is that I could get a lot of impressions, and some clicks, and blow my ad budget.
If google had a "pay per impression" model the way facebook did, I would include backgammon, but since it doesn't, I'm leaving it out.
By comparison, if someone types "Yinsh" into a google search, that person probably isn't looking specifically for a Yinsh game. He's probably a fan of more than one abstract strategy game, and might be excited to see a tournament in anything that isn't Chess. He's more likely not to be a waste of my limited number of clicks. (I have gotten a few hits for Tzaar, but they could have been searching for Tzaar baalei hayim, a transliterated Hebrew phrase that apparently has something to do with a mitzvah to treat animals well.)
Shogi continues to be a leading keyword, so I decided to create a specific page for Shogi, encouraging a Shogi tournament. I'm not actually claiming that one will happen, but it's a similar page to the Chess960 page.
One of the things I'm paying attention to is "ad quality". It's a measure that google uses to decide how relevant your ad is to a search. The reason it's important is that if they decide your ad is low quality, they'll put it at the bottom of the page, even if no other ads are at the top or side. I know that when I do a search on a game, I'm often using google as a shortcut to wikipedia, or am just looking for the most popular general purpose site for that game. In other words, I won't bother scrolling down to even see the ad on the bottom. To try to improve my ad quality, I sprinkled some more keywords in the document, and rearranged it a bit. Ad quality is periodically recomputed, so we'll see if I can raise it above the "3" level, where it's at now.
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Doc Bullseye
United States
Brownsburg
Indiana
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mccann51 wrote: I'd guess most ads people see online are completely ignored; I for one do not even see them anymore, and I'm confident I'm not in a small minority.
That was my first thought. Neat idea, but people "in-the-know" -- which I would assume includes most strategy gamers -- are probably using AdBlock. Still, for $7 it's worth a try!
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David Lame
United States
Michigan
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KnobDoctor wrote: mccann51 wrote: I'd guess most ads people see online are completely ignored; I for one do not even see them anymore, and I'm confident I'm not in a small minority. That was my first thought. Neat idea, but people "in-the-know" -- which I would assume includes most strategy gamers -- are probably using AdBlock. Still, for $7 it's worth a try!
That was my thought as well. For seven dollars, you can't expect a great deal. I don't think most people use adblock, though. I don't, and I don't see any need to start. Pop-ups are annoying, but ads I don't mind. On search results, I actually want them, because I am often searching for businesses.
I decided to try the "google display network" and not just search results. I was a bit nervous about it, because I don't know where my ad would be shown, and I thought I might get more "just curious" clicks. However, my impression count has gone up dramatically, as expected, and I have gotten one more click. Apparently, google tells you where that click came from, and in my case is was caissa.com. Well that seems like a pretty quality sort of click.
Google also lets you specify sites, so I might see where my first few clicks come from, and then really target those sites.
,
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David Lame
United States
Michigan
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Statistics are starting to roll in on my display network ads. It's being shown on a lot of chess sites. My clicks have come from redhotpawn.com, caissa.com, and youtube.
However, more than anyplace else, my ad is showing on funnyjunk.com.
That one doesn't seem like a great placement to me. I might just try and put a - on that one. (i.e. specifically exclude that domain.)
ETA: The problem with pay per click on a microadvertisement like mine is that once someone clicks once, your ad budget is mostly blown for the day. Someone clicked something before 7:00 am this morning. It cost me $0.88, and pretty much ended my "impressions" for the day.
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David Lame
United States
Michigan
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I have discontinued my "display network" advertising. The ad was shown a total of about 20,000 times, including 8,000 on funnyjunk.com before I excluded it. Most of the clicks came from obscure Chess sites. (Queenalice.com and such) I did get a few youtube hits. It resulted in 18 clicks. The page you get sent to when clicking encouraged people to send me an email if they were interested in a tournament, and I got zero emails. Total cost was about 11 dollars.
I still have my search ads. Those are such low volumes of impressions that almost no one clicks on them, which means they are pretty much free, and it's interesting to see what people search for. Of the terms I am using, Shogi is still the top draw on search engine hits. Khet is doing pretty well, too.
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