Nathan
Australia
Invergowrie
NSW
-
Close Action is one of the best 'team' wargames I've played. Each team organises a battle plan beforehand. Once the battle begins your ship can only send limited messages (usually four words) to other ships per turn. Even so, throughout the game you manoeuvre your ship to benefit your team, perhaps even sacrificing your ship for the benefit of the team.
-
Sim Guy
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
-
I think the greatest sea change that I have seen over the years, and expect to continue, is the willingness of game designers to use new mechanics to achieve their design goal, and of the players to accept them. Designers in the 70s, I'm sure, felt constrained by the hex-counter-d6 standard they were almost compelled to use. There were a few non-hex/counter games but most of them didn't do that well.
These days a designer can use hexes, squares, area movement, point to point, counters, blocks, miniatures, cards, special dice, chit-pull, bidding, geomorphic maps, tiles of many different shapes, and on and on. It isn't that designers couldn't use all of these elements, and the mechanics they enable, before - they did, eventually - but these days it seems that no one gives the variety and the intellectual freedom much thought.
The gaming community has evolved. The advent of Euros and their like have introduced players and designers to all sorts of new mechanics and ideas, which I believe have benefited the wargaming community disproportionately, and wargames as a genre. This is also why we get into arguments over whether or not games like Twilight Struggle, A Game of Thrones, Labyrinth: The War on Terror, 2001-?, or A Few Acres of Snow are wargames or not.
I'm looking forward to whatever is coming next.
-
Wendell
United States
Arlington
Virginia
All the little chicks with crimson lips, go...
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
-
tc237 wrote: Lawrence Hung wrote: tc237 wrote:
What are some current wargame mechanics for weather?
-historical weather
-totally random weather
-semi-random weather (die roll modifier)
Anything else?
Card-dependent weather like that in No Retreat! The Russian FrontHow does it work? Is it just flipping a card (random)? Do the players have an idea of what the weather will be next turn? hmm...wait, never mind...I guess my I'm thinking of operational/tactical games with turns that represent Hours or at most 2-Days. Week and Month long turns are at another level for weather "forecasting".
Weather is predetermined, but some turns (in the spring and fall as I recall), play of a card can change what the weather is from the default to something different - e.g. from mud to snow, or snow to long winter.
-
Lawrence Hung
Hong-Kong
Wan Chai
Hong Kong
-
wifwendell wrote:
Weather is predetermined, but some turns (in the spring and fall as I recall), play of a card can change what the weather is from the default to something different - e.g. from mud to snow, or snow to long winter.
Above all, from mud to clear when your German panzers are at the gate of Moscow. So weather is dependent on whether you draw the fickle weather card on the third turn...with 4 cards to draw every turn from an initial deck of 41 cards and retain 2 at the end of a turn, the odds are that the German has 30% chance (or 39% if you take into account of the descending number of cards in the deck) to change the weather at the most critical time!
-
Thomas Eager
United States
Portland
Oregon
This Space for Rent
Hassan CHOP!
-
Amnese wrote: Close Action is one of the best 'team' wargames I've played. Each team organises a battle plan beforehand. Once the battle begins your ship can only send limited messages (usually four words) to other ships per turn. Even so, throughout the game you manoeuvre your ship to benefit your team, perhaps even sacrificing your ship for the benefit of the team.
 On a similar note to this, lots of minis wargames such as Warrior have an "order-limiting" mechanic. I'm very enamored of War of the Ring and its use of Action Dice, and some other Euros (like Yspahan and Airships) have adapted dice to new, more "conceptual" uses. I'd be interested to see more wargames try and utilize these type of mechanics.
-
Markus Pausch
Germany
Hamburg
-
Aside from game mechanism the presentation of the rules have become very user friendly.
Long gone are the days of manual style rulebooks. Todays rulebooks come with step by step introduction like COH (ok, this also was done in Squad Leader) and extensive full colour examples of play, like in Fighting Formations and many other GMT games.
Especially the FF rules are done so well: after you read the rules and the examples you can begin to play.
-
Carl Paradis
Canada
Ste-Therese
Quebec
-
Lawrence Hung wrote: wifwendell wrote:
Weather is predetermined, but some turns (in the spring and fall as I recall), play of a card can change what the weather is from the default to something different - e.g. from mud to snow, or snow to long winter.
Above all, from mud to clear when your German panzers are at the gate of Moscow. So weather is dependent on whether you draw the fickle weather card on the third turn...with 4 cards to draw every turn from an initial deck of 41 cards and retain 2 at the end of a turn, the odds are that the German has 30% chance (or 39% if you take into account of the descending number of cards in the deck) to change the weather at the most critical time!
Your computations are not correct.
The odds are in fact less than 4% since some cards do not work to change the weather at all times (ex: some will change the weather for the next turn only if it's already snow) and some will make the said weather "Revert back" to the previous state. Plus it all depends WHO draws the card: A "German Event" weather card will not take effect if drawn by the Soviets.
There is ONLY 2 cards (out of 4) that the German can draw to change the weather. The 2 other cards are for the Soviets only and will change the Weather ONLY to "Mud" and "Snow", if applicable (thus can cancel a German Weather Card.
Plu do not forget that you cannot keep a weather card in your hand, you have to play it immediately when drawn, even if it cannot take effect.
-
Nick West
Scotland
Colinton
Edinburgh
-
I was active about 10 or 15 years ago in groups called Wargames Developments and MegaGame Makers which pushed the boundaries of war game design greatly at the time.
The games were non-commercial however and often only played once or twice. If you go into the archives of WD you will find references to many classics and some free downloads I believe.
Fond memories of up to 150 players gathering for the weekend to game, say, the whole of the 1813 campaign or the Battle of Gazala 1942 to recall two examples.
http://www.wargamedevelopments.org/
http://www.megagame-makers.org.uk/
-
Warren Bruhn
United States
Portland
Oregon
-
Coming back to cardboard wargames after a break of nearly 20 years, I find a cardboard wargame world dominated by card driven games, games with wood or plastic bits, and much better production quality on average with respect to the maps and cardboard pieces. I've seen a lot of very fast games intended to be played in single sessions. But at the same time I'm astonished that games and game expansions continue to be published which are oriented toward grognards, including ASL, WiF, the OCS series, and The Devil's Cauldron and Where Eagles Dare.
I would guess that the future of wargames might be much like the present, with many different options for game mechanics, and with an increasing emphasis in the visual and tactile appeal of the games. Speed of play will continue to be a premium value, as the bulk of wargamers don't want to dedicate the time to games that take many sessions to finish.
Miniatures seems to be thriving, as new lines of models continue to be produced to replace lines no longer in production. There seems to be a never ending stream of rulebooks being produced for miniatures. There is a current trend toward role play scale and skirmish scale, in which the models represent individual people in a small firefight or movie scene like encounter. Many people don't have the time to collect large mass armies, though there are a lot of older guys still doing this, and this change to skirmish and role playing scales brings miniatures within the range of the possible for some new painters and collectors.
-
Warren Bruhn
United States
Portland
Oregon
-
notquitekarpov wrote:
Fond memories of up to 150 players gathering for the weekend to game, say, the whole of the 1813 campaign or the Battle of Gazala 1942 to recall two examples.
Wow! A group like that could play SPI Campaign for North Africa!
I used to play pbem games that involved 40 to 90 players in each campaign. But now computers handle massively multi-player games.
-
Nick West
Scotland
Colinton
Edinburgh
-
The WD boys had connections with the British Army and at one point has access to the facilities of the Staff College for the weekend game of Gazala.
That was a megagame - using a hieratical teams of teams run by a team of umpires. Each team might be four of five at Army and Corp level, plus airforce and other (SAS) teams.
I was playing a Staff Office at British Army HQ in charge of Logistics. A nightmare mixture of planning and panic reaction to balance keeping the Corps and Division dumps supplied without leaving too much in the path of the Africa Corps in case their broke in.
Amongst the game design features were telephones to call and speak to other teams but we discovered the umpires has use of a switchboard to cut communications at vital times, and to allow the enemy to listen in for certain periods (representing Y-service and Enigma etc).
Fun.
-
Lawrence Hung
Hong-Kong
Wan Chai
Hong Kong
-
Quote: Speed of play will continue to be a premium value, as the bulk of wargamers don't want to dedicate the time to games that take many sessions to finish.
It's not that I don't want to but I can't. In fact, I bought those games intending to be capable of playing them with sufficient space one day. A dream that I fought for over 20 years and still not materialize.
-
Andrew Kluck
United States
Hudson
Wisconsin
-
Ultimately it's game time that will be the choke point for future wargame success. For all the complaining about component quality, rules clarity, or development time those warts are overlooked if the game is good.
What brings it to the table and sells more of it's like is the frequency it gets used. Some are looking for a rich experience developed over time but even those will bail if they find a similar experience in half the time.
-
Wendell
United States
Arlington
Virginia
All the little chicks with crimson lips, go...
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
-
Lawrence Hung wrote: Quote: Speed of play will continue to be a premium value, as the bulk of wargamers don't want to dedicate the time to games that take many sessions to finish. It's not that I don't want to but I can't. In fact, I bought those games intending to be capable of playing them with sufficient space one day. A dream that I fought for over 20 years and still not materialize.
I know what you mean - but if the game is available on vassal or cyberboard, that saves a lot of room. I prefer having the game on a table, but a computer screen is better than being unable to play at all.
-
Lawrence Hung
Hong-Kong
Wan Chai
Hong Kong
-
That's correct on space. But it takes months to play monster game with PBEM or Skype live. Solitaire game may be shorter.
-
Wendell
United States
Arlington
Virginia
All the little chicks with crimson lips, go...
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
-
Lawrence Hung wrote: That's correct on space. But it takes months to play monster game with PBEM or Skype live. Solitaire game may be shorter.
I agree - but you can solitaire with vassal, too!
-
Cheong Sang Lai
Hong-Kong
Happy Valley
None
-
Lawrence Hung wrote: That's correct on space. But it takes months to play monster game with PBEM or Skype live. Solitaire game may be shorter.
Lawrence... go buy a bigger table! You can't even put a 2 mapper on the tables you have... and you call yourself a wargamer... 
-
Lawrence Hung
Hong-Kong
Wan Chai
Hong Kong
-
It won't be possible for the time being. Who says one mapper game can't be a wargame and the one who play it can't call himself a wargamer? Plus I did host two mapper game Russian Civil War 1918-1922 (second edition) to play against you and a game of Axis Empires: Dai Senso! on virtual table. There are many many one mapper wargamer out there!
-
Rolling bad dice in wargames since 1977
United States
Austin
Texas
-
Sitnam wrote: Speaking of Euro mechanics in wargames, do any wargames incorporate rondels or auction bidding?
Lots of aircraft counters have rondels on them.
-
Rolling bad dice in wargames since 1977
United States
Austin
Texas
-
Lawrence Hung wrote: jeb123 wrote: 1776 has this EXACT feature back in the early 70's. I don't have that game. Why was the feature not widely used in other wargames?
It was used in a few others.
I think folks thought it made something simple unnecessarily fussy and a drag on play (the wait to select and compare cards before rolling against a table and applying the results—for one battle).
-
Cheong Sang Lai
Hong-Kong
Happy Valley
None
-
Lawrence Hung wrote: It won't be possible for the time being. Who says one mapper game can't be a wargame and the one who play it can't call himself a wargamer? Plus I did host two mapper game Russian Civil War 1918-1922 (second edition) to play against you and a game of Axis Empires: Dai Senso! on virtual table. There are many many one mapper wargamer out there!
But you have hundreds of MULTI-MAPPER GAMES!!
-
Talon Amores
United States
West Warwick
Rhode Island
-
I have no idea how relevant this is to the OP, but I hope this mini-rant encourages some discussion!
I'm not a pessimist by any stretch of the word, but I'm starting to not be surprised when I tell people that wargames do, in fact, exist (ie not Warhammer 40k/other miniature games, actual boardgame wargames) and their reaction is one of puzzlement.
I know I've said this more than once and I think I sound like I'm starting to brag (not that it's much to brag about), but at 19 years old I do wonder: will wargaming still be as big as it is many, many decades later outside of dedicated circles?
At the same time, people were pretty interested the day I brought in games like Fortress America, and we even played a game yesterday, and none of the other players had ever seen a wargame (well OK they played Risk), and they loved it! Then at our game club, a place dominated by Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: The Gathering, I whipped out my copy of World in Flames and spread out the map, put out the pieces, and what do you know, people seemed genuinely surprised that games like these exist and a little impressed, I think.
I think I'm slowly converting some people into this genre. It's a slow, tedious but rewarding process and I think we may very well get into Paths of Glory soon. Maybe, perhaps one day, I'll play World in Flames with the initiates-now-dedicated fans...
I think ultimately I can perhaps answer my own question and say that wargaming will probably still be thriving in some form in the future as long as great fellows like you guys continue to get people into the genre.
-
Warren Bruhn
United States
Portland
Oregon
-
Garfink wrote:
But you have hundreds of MULTI-MAPPER GAMES!!
That is probably the problem. Lawrence lists 822 games owned on BGG and he wants another 1200+ games! Maybe Lawrence should sell or ship off to remote storage about 750 of these games to make a space to play the ones he keeps nearby! But that must be tough in Hong Kong, the most densely populated place I've ever seen...
-
Warren Bruhn
United States
Portland
Oregon
-
UN Spacy wrote:
I'm not a pessimist by any stretch of the word, but I'm starting to not be surprised when I tell people that wargames do, in fact, exist (ie not Warhammer 40k/other miniature games, actual boardgame wargames) and their reaction is one of puzzlement.
I know I've said this more than once and I think I sound like I'm starting to brag (not that it's much to brag about), but at 19 years old I do wonder: will wargaming still be as big as it is many, many decades later outside of dedicated circles?
I think I'm slowly converting some people into this genre. It's a slow, tedious but rewarding process and I think we may very well get into Paths of Glory soon. Maybe, perhaps one day, I'll play World in Flames with the initiates-now-dedicated fans...
Wow! 19 years old and a wargame evangelist! Bravo! And your ambition is to play a game that is older than you are! That's awesome! You may be a pessimist, but you are making some of the rest of us into optimists. Thanks!
Some of the shops in my area don't have much besides fantasy figures and rules, Warhammer and the like, and maybe some card games. But others stock a mix of those plus Euros and wargames. Some even have game days at the store where an occassional wargame can be seen. I've met a few cardboard wargamers through one local store's Euro-game Sunday events. But I think a lot of people play wargames at private homes and in clubs, including some that meet in college classrooms.
That's why this website is especially useful. I found several of the players for our current Empires in Arms campaign through BGG (another game that is older than you are, and is still fun). I was introduced to a group of grognards playing monster wargames through a contact on BGG. I've found several other players to bring into that monster wargame group through BGG. Some recently played in sessions of The Devil's Cauldron there. So I strongly believe in supporting BGG.
I would suggest working the internet hard to find local opponents, even though many of them will not be of your generation.
I think a lot of people in the 1980's thought that cardboard wargaming would die as players started buying PC's and PC wargames. Very remarkable that wargames seem to be in a second golden age now. Fewer copies sold, but many relatively new games of high quality available. Before the 1980's I think there were some who thought that the cardboard wargames were killing miniatures wargames, or were at least keeping miniatures wargames stagnant. But today miniatures are strong and are growing. Both cardboard and miniatures wargaming are still niche hobbies, but they are very much alive and well. I guess there is no replacement for playing face to face with physical game components.
-
Nathan
Australia
Invergowrie
NSW
-
UN Spacy wrote: I have no idea how relevant this is to the OP, but I hope this mini-rant encourages some discussion!
I'm not a pessimist by any stretch of the word, but I'm starting to not be surprised when I tell people that wargames do, in fact, exist (ie not Warhammer 40k/other miniature games, actual boardgame wargames) and their reaction is one of puzzlement.
I know I've said this more than once and I think I sound like I'm starting to brag (not that it's much to brag about), but at 19 years old I do wonder: will wargaming still be as big as it is many, many decades later outside of dedicated circles?
At the same time, people were pretty interested the day I brought in games like Fortress America, and we even played a game yesterday, and none of the other players had ever seen a wargame (well OK they played Risk), and they loved it! Then at our game club, a place dominated by Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: The Gathering, I whipped out my copy of World in Flames and spread out the map, put out the pieces, and what do you know, people seemed genuinely surprised that games like these exist and a little impressed, I think.
I think I'm slowly converting some people into this genre. It's a slow, tedious but rewarding process and I think we may very well get into Paths of Glory soon. Maybe, perhaps one day, I'll play World in Flames with the initiates-now-dedicated fans...
I think ultimately I can perhaps answer my own question and say that wargaming will probably still be thriving in some form in the future as long as great fellows like you guys continue to get people into the genre.
I love your post Talon, and it matches my experience closely. I've commented elsewhere on how I'd like to see more 'gateway' wargames (http://boardgamegeek.com/article/6971907#6971907) as way to slowly introduce gamers to the genre. I love heavy boardgames, but it's difficult if there is nobody around to play them with (solitaire and PBEM are okay). I've found several gateway games have helped me to slowly introduce wargames to my regular gaming group and I see these 'easier' games playing a larger role in the future.
-
|
|
