David F
United States
Emeryville
California
Set up a lot of the PBF framework for BSG, Runewars, Small World, The Devil's Castle. PBF in Gears of War, Death Angel, A Game of Thrones. Currently playing Twilight Struggle, Middle-Earth Quest and Eclipse on Vassal.
I'm anal about using the right terms to describe games and have posted an alternative glossary to the inconsistent sprawl in BGG's database and lexicon that is clear, accurate and simple. I care big time about my reviews, ratings and comments.
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If a hero has a choice to take 5 damage or do something else (like receive corruption), but he only has 4 health (between his hand and life pool), can he choose the take 5 damage option and resolve it as best as possible (defeating himself), or is he not allowed to choose the take-5-damage option because he cannot fully resolve this?
I've seen instances in other FFG games where you're allowed to choose a option even if you can't fully resolve it (Battlestar Galactica), and others where you cannot choose an option if you can't fully resolve it (Runewars, A Game of Thrones, Chaos in the Old World), so not sure about this one.
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Phil McDonald
England
Staffordshire
UK
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I think you have to choose an option you can fully satisfy.
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Mindy G
United States
Portland
Oregon
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Yeah, it's in the rule book that you have to choose the one you can fully resolve. I'll find it.
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Rauli Kettunen
Finland
Oulu
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As per FAQ:
"Q: How do you resolve a card that has a choice if one of the results cannot be
filly resolved? For example: “The hero must choose to either lose 2 favor or
have Sauron draw 2 Corruption cards and choose 1 for the hero to receive” if
the hero only has 1 favor?
A: The player must choose the result that can be fully resolved.
In the example, since the entire amount of favor cannot be paid,
the other effect must occur."
I'd say you have to take the alternate penalty if you have 4 life total left and something calls for 5 dmg.
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Mindy G
United States
Portland
Oregon
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It's in the FAQ V2.
Q: How do you resolve a card that has a choice if one of the results cannot be filly resolved? For example: The hero must choose to either lose 2 favor or have Sauron draw 2 Corruption cards and choose 1 for the hero to receive if the hero only has 1 favor?
A: The player must choose the result that can be fully resolved.
In the example, since the entire amount of favor cannot be paid,
the other effect must occur.
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/middle-earth_q...
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David F
United States
Emeryville
California
Set up a lot of the PBF framework for BSG, Runewars, Small World, The Devil's Castle. PBF in Gears of War, Death Angel, A Game of Thrones. Currently playing Twilight Struggle, Middle-Earth Quest and Eclipse on Vassal.
I'm anal about using the right terms to describe games and have posted an alternative glossary to the inconsistent sprawl in BGG's database and lexicon that is clear, accurate and simple. I care big time about my reviews, ratings and comments.
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I'm aware of the favor ruling, but might it be different since this involves health (which I guess you could regard as being able to have a negative value for a split second)?
The card in question is Dark Promises being played on you when your life pool + hand size < 5.
EDIT: Hmm, the favor is an example, not the ruling; I buy it then.
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Craig Truesdell
United States
Uniontown
Ohio
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Interesting... I get the ruling that if you can't pay it, you can't get it. Damage is different however (at least in my mind), I think the hero could choose that option with the excess damage wasted.
I will have to think about it some more....
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Phil McDonald
England
Staffordshire
UK
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ctcharger wrote: Interesting... I get the ruling that if you can't pay it, you can't get it. Damage is different however (at least in my mind), I think the hero could choose that option with the excess damage wasted.
I will have to think about it some more....
You'd have to use a house rule if you do, cos as has been mentioned, it's covered in the FAQ.
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Craig Truesdell
United States
Uniontown
Ohio
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I disagree, I see paying favor as different from taking damage so the FAQ doesn't quite do it for me. During the game, I can "take" 5 damage even if I only have 1 life card left but I can't spend 2 favor if I don't have at least 2 favor. Self defeating is allowed in the game also and this would be another case of it.
but... I could be wrong so...
let's vote on it..
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Mindy G
United States
Portland
Oregon
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The FAQ clearly uses favor as an example only. The actual answer part of the answer says "The player must choose the result that can be fully resolved."
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Craig Truesdell
United States
Uniontown
Ohio
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Clear is always a matter of perspective.
In combat, if I inflict 5 damage on your hero but you only have 3 life cards left (hand+pool), you are defeated. Nothing happens to the 2 excess damage the hero took, the damage inflicted was "fully resolved" by the hero being defeated. In the game, this never happens with favor. If you need X favor to do something, you can't do it unless you have x favor.
Self defeating is allowed in the rules so why not in this case?
I just thought of something that makes me lean to your side. If you don't have 5 life cards, that means you are too tired/injured to oppose Sauron's strategy so you can't make that choice. That would make it different than combat and more like spending favor.
I need to read the card text.
That also means Sauron can't use that card to defeat you even if he wanted to which is interesting. I am guessing that Sauron can't let you choose an option you can't select yourself.
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David F
United States
Emeryville
California
Set up a lot of the PBF framework for BSG, Runewars, Small World, The Devil's Castle. PBF in Gears of War, Death Angel, A Game of Thrones. Currently playing Twilight Struggle, Middle-Earth Quest and Eclipse on Vassal.
I'm anal about using the right terms to describe games and have posted an alternative glossary to the inconsistent sprawl in BGG's database and lexicon that is clear, accurate and simple. I care big time about my reviews, ratings and comments.
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ctcharger wrote:
In combat, if I inflict 5 damage on your hero but you only have 3 life cards left (hand+pool), you are defeated. Nothing happens to the 2 excess damage the hero took, the damage inflicted was "fully resolved" by the hero being defeated. In the game, this never happens with favor. If you need X favor to do something, you can't do it unless you have x favor.
No, I interpret that in combat, if you inflict 5 damage and the opponent only has 3 life cards left, he resolves it as best as he could and assigns the 3 damage. He has no choice on whether or not to take 5 damage or something else. The effect is to take 5 damage and he must soak this up as best as he can.
Same that if a card says simply to lose 2 favor and you have 1. You lose the 1 in order to resolve as much of the effect as you can. It's not "fully resolved".
Your combat point has no choice; your favor point does.
Anyway, beside the point. I'll just go with "cannot choose" (I'd rather go with what a ruling says than what it misses, and majority seems to think that one's right anyway), but won't be surprised if it's the other. I, and a lot of others, were shocked to learn that you can always choose an option that you cannot fully resolve in Battlestar Galactica, since nothing in the game really suggested that.
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Craig Truesdell
United States
Uniontown
Ohio
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Here is my new thinking...
I totally get the favor part. No 2 favor no choice. Just like the FAQ, got it.
Combat damage is inflicted on you, once your are "defeated", that's it. Someone comes to your aid and you are good to go.
In the example that started the thread, this kind of damage is different. I believe it is meant to represent extra effort expended to thwart Sauron's strategy. If you are so tired/injured that you can't expend the full effort, you can't take that option. Now if you have exactly 5 life cards left, you can make that choice and be defeated. In your last breath before passing out, you thwart Sauron's strategy. You are still defeated but I would give +2 style points.
This is the part I like about playing MEQ, it's like I am playing a novel.
And I like this thread, it changed the way I would play the game.
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Duke Drizzt
United States
Washington
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I was one of the 2 that voted damage is different than favor and it's like this. U can voluntarily defeat yourself in this game whether by moving, combat, whatever. This is just another avenue to do it in. What's more is that by doing this u are fully resolving the action. Defeat is the resolution so by the OPs original question I believe if by defeating yourself is a better strategic decision than taking corruption then go for it. That's your choice. Remember there is no real penalty in this game for dying(unless u play with my death/rewards variant
 ) The example in the FAQ doesn't represent this fact well cuz favor is different than health, I believe. That particular example isn't really a choice unless u have the 2 favor to begin with.
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Duke Drizzt
United States
Washington
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selwyth wrote:
No, I interpret that in combat, if you inflict 5 damage and the opponent only has 3 life cards left, he resolves it as best as he could and assigns the 3 damage. He has no choice on whether or not to take 5 damage or something else. The effect is to take 5 damage and he must soak this up as best as he can.
Same that if a card says simply to lose 2 favor and you have 1. You lose the 1 in order to resolve as much of the effect as you can. It's not "fully resolved".
Your combat point has no choice; your favor point does.
I'm not sure I'm following u here but your 2 examples here are absolutes. There is no option. If u have 3 cards in combat and take 5 damage you're done, defeated. If a card says to lose 2 favor and u only have 1 than u lose that 1 cuz that's all u could do. If u don't have 2 u wouldn't not lose that 1 favor cuz that's the only option. When presented with 2 possibilities if one can be fully resolved than that's the one u should go with per the example in the FAQ. Which I think was a bad example btw
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