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BattleTech» Forums » General

Subject: Getting back into battletech after a *long* break rss

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Ryan Powers
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SO I haven't played battletech since shortly after the clans came out.

I did grab a few technical readouts after that though so I have half a dozen or so somewhere. From the old 3025 one on up to 3058 (maybe one past there)

Other than replacements in 3025 for the "unseen" I am assuming the rules haven't changed enough to invalidate these. Is this correct?

Assuming I still prefer the pre-clan era, what's in the 3039 readout that didn't used to exist? In a nutshell, don't need a whole book here, though I guess if you feel like it, go nuts!

Having all of the Technical Readouts covered by 3039, is there much there needed?

Any words of wisdom before diving back in?
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  • Last edited Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:27 am (Total Number of Edits: 2)
  • Posted Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:13 am
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TRO 3039 basically takes all the 'Mechs, vehicles, and ASFs from TRO 3025 and 3026, along with teched-down versions of the stuff from TRO 2750 and teched-down versions of the new Inner Sphere 'Mechs from TRO 3050. The unseen have not be "replaced" - they are actually in the book! All the fluff and info is there, only lacking artwork. TRO 3039 has some new variants and fluff from the old TROs, but there isn't a ton "new" there that wasn't in the other four TROs I mentioned.

I would recommend three things:

Record Sheets 3039 Unabridged - This is a PDF only product of record sheets for every unit in TRO 3039, including every published variant. For $10, you get 500 pages of record sheets - enough units to play pre-Clan forever. There are two sources for the BattleTech PDF only products - DriveThruRPG and BattleCorps. I prefer DriveThru - Check it out here:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=8...

Total Warfare - This is the most current, up-to-date version of the rules. It has everything you need to play with 'Mechs and vehicles, and even infantry and ASFs if you prefer. It is a fully integrated, comprehensive rulebook. (Of course, if you prefer to keep using the old rules, things haven't changed all that much. The new record sheets are still 98% compatible with the old rules.)

Introductory Box Set - This has been reprinted and will be released in less than a week. It has 26 plastic 'Mechs, two very nice, double-sided board game style maps, a handy reference card, and intro rules that cover the basics of playing 'Mechs with just introductory (Level 1/pre-Clan) tech. It is a great value.
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  • Last edited Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:28 am (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:27 am
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Ryan Powers
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Dr Lucky wrote:

Total Warfare - This is the most current, up-to-date version of the rules. It has everything you need to play with 'Mechs and vehicles, and even infantry and ASFs if you prefer. It is a fully integrated, comprehensive rulebook. (Of course, if you prefer to keep using the old rules, things haven't changed all that much. The new record sheets are still 98% compatible with the old rules.)


ASFs?
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  • Last edited Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:44 am (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:44 am
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Ron D
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Aerospace fighters. The ASF rules used to be separate - AeroTech and AeroTech 2 - but their rules are covered in the core rule book now.

I said Total Warfare covers 'Mechs, vehicles, infantry, and ASFs, but it actually covers even more - conventional aircraft, Industrial 'Mechs, protomechs, VTOL aircraft (like helicoptors), WIGE aircraft, battle armor infantry (like Clan Elementals), and possibly a few more categories I'm forgetting. It is very comprehensive.
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It depends on your point of view. For many fans of the Succession War era, the removal and/or graphical redesign of the "unseen" mechs was a pretty big deal. I myself liked many of the Studio Nue designs, but didn't find their graphical representation to be critical to the game. Great graphic design helps immerse the player in the game, especially when you're using the miniatures, but it's not like the only mechs that looked cool were the Studio Nue "unseen."

If you already have a pretty good grasp of the game, you'll find the current rules to be similar enough to start back up with ease. There have been some tweaks here and there, but for the most part, all of the changes have been welcome improvements to correct imbalance or to make things scientifically and technologically more realistic.

I always recommend picking up Classic Battletech: Total Warfare, preferably the Catalyst Game Labs reprint over the FanPro version as the FanPro version had misprints and errata. Most of the brand new copies you'll find for sale are the CGL version, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Some would recommend picking up an Introductory Box Set, such as the latest 25th Anniversary version, but given your prior experience, you might feel you'll be paying for stuff you don't need. The plastic mechs in these Intro sets aren't horrible. They're better than the paper standups used in prior releases, yet not as detailed as some of the metal miniatures. Just take the time to clean them up before painting and you'll be fine, i.e., trim the flash and wash them in mild dish soap to remove the mold release oils. The intro set also comes with record sheets for all of the included mechs, a mounted hexmap and Quickstart/Intro rules.

The one thing I don't like about the Intro sets is how they introduce new players to the game. They begin with just mechs, which is fine, but they ease people into heat and ammo tracking. While this helps avoid new players feeling overwhelmed, it can also leave players with a false impression of what the game is like and let's face it, new players will make a snap judgement after that first game, possibly giving up on a game they might otherwise grow to like after introducing the rest of the normal rules, as well as combined arms tactics through the introduction of tanks and battle armor. So be aware that for you, the Quickstart and Intro rules are probably going to feel like training wheels on a Harley Davidson.

So the current game rules have been released in stages via a collection of hard back books. The books are as follows:

1. Total Warfare (Basic rules for Mechs, Land, Air and Sea Vehicles, and Battle Armor/Standard Troops.)

2. Techmanual (Construction rules for every unit type in the game, including Mechs, as well as more advanced equipment.)

3. Tactical Operations (Even more advanced equipment, but also includes advanced rules for local and planetwide atmospheric and terrain conditions. Want to play a game on a lava field, immersed in hurricane conditions? This is your book.)

4. Strategic Operations (Takes things beyond planets with advanced Aerospace stuff, introduces the rules for Battleforce, for grander scaled games, maintenance, repair, salvage and customization, along with the revised miniature rules, aka hexless games on 3d terrain.)

5. A Time of War (The new RPG rules, which replace all previous incarnations of "Mechwarrior". Indispensable if you want to personalize your Mechwarriors and role-play what happens when your warrior is out of his cockpit and off the battlefield.)

6. Interstellar Operations (Yet to be released. Where Tactical Ops focuses on individual planets and their conditions, and Strategic Ops gets off of the planet, but stays within the context of a Solar System, Interstellar Ops is supposed to take things from a Galactic, System to System perspective.)

I use the first 3 books constantly. Strat Ops and the RPG are nice when you want to expand things beyond a series of individual games between relatively ambiguous forces.

I've posted some helpful hints for beginners in the BT forums here before. The links are extremely helpful though and I highly recommend checking them all out. Rather than type them all out, just click HERE to go the post directly.

Edit: When I began typing, there hadn't been a single reply yet made. I typed so much that a fully-developed thread sprung up!
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  • Last edited Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:57 am (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:54 am
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Dr Lucky wrote:
Aerospace fighters. The ASF rules used to be separate - AeroTech and AeroTech 2 - but their rules are covered in the core rule book now.

I said Total Warfare covers 'Mechs, vehicles, infantry, and ASFs, but it actually covers even more - conventional aircraft, Industrial 'Mechs, protomechs, VTOL aircraft (like helicoptors), WIGE aircraft, battle armor infantry (like Clan Elementals), and possibly a few more categories I'm forgetting. It is very comprehensive.


Ah, just didn't follow the acronym. Thanks.
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  • Last edited Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:55 am (Total Number of Edits: 1)
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hskrfn822 wrote:
It depends on your point of view. For many fans of the Succession War era, the removal and/or graphical redesign of the "unseen" mechs was a pretty big deal. I myself liked many of the Studio Nue designs, but didn't find their graphical representation to be critical to the game. Great graphic design helps immerse the player in the game, especially when you're using the miniatures, but it's not like the only mechs that looked cool were the Studio Nue "unseen."



*cough*I have all the unseen in metal*cough*
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Ron D
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hskrfn822 wrote:
It depends on your point of view. For many fans of the Succession War era, the removal and/or graphical redesign of the "unseen" mechs was a pretty big deal. I myself liked many of the Studio Nue designs, but didn't find their graphical representation to be critical to the game. Great graphic design helps immerse the player in the game, especially when you're using the miniatures, but it's not like the only mechs that looked cool were the Studio Nue "unseen."

If you already have a pretty good grasp of the game, you'll find the current rules to be similar enough to start back up with ease. There have been some tweaks here and there, but for the most part, all of the changes have been welcome improvements to correct imbalance or to make things scientifically and technologically more realistic.

I always recommend picking up Classic Battletech: Total Warfare, preferably the Catalyst Game Labs reprint over the FanPro version as the FanPro version had misprints and errata. Most of the brand new copies you'll find for sale are the CGL version, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Some would recommend picking up an Introductory Box Set, such as the latest 25th Anniversary version, but given your prior experience, you might feel you'll be paying for stuff you don't need. The plastic mechs in these Intro sets aren't horrible. They're better than the paper standups used in prior releases, yet not as detailed as some of the metal miniatures. Just take the time to clean them up before painting and you'll be fine, i.e., trim the flash and wash them in mild dish soap to remove the mold release oils. The intro set also comes with record sheets for all of the included mechs, a mounted hexmap and Quickstart/Intro rules.

The one thing I don't like about the Intro sets is how they introduce new players to the game. They begin with just mechs, which is fine, but they ease people into heat and ammo tracking. While this helps avoid new players feeling overwhelmed, it can also leave players with a false impression of what the game is like and let's face it, new players will make a snap judgement after that first game, possibly giving up on a game they might otherwise grow to like after introducing the rest of the normal rules, as well as combined arms tactics through the introduction of tanks and battle armor. So be aware that for you, the Quickstart and Intro rules are probably going to feel like training wheels on a Harley Davidson.

So the current game rules have been released in stages via a collection of hard back books. The books are as follows:

1. Total Warfare (Basic rules for Mechs, Land, Air and Sea Vehicles, and Battle Armor/Standard Troops.)

2. Techmanual (Construction rules for every unit type in the game, including Mechs, as well as more advanced equipment.)

3. Tactical Operations (Even more advanced equipment, but also includes advanced rules for local and planetwide atmospheric and terrain conditions. Want to play a game on a lava field, immersed in hurricane conditions? This is your book.)

4. Strategic Operations (Takes things beyond planets with advanced Aerospace stuff, introduces the rules for Battleforce, for grander scaled games, maintenance, repair, salvage and customization, along with the revised miniature rules, aka hexless games on 3d terrain.)

5. A Time of War (The new RPG rules, which replace all previous incarnations of "Mechwarrior". Indispensable if you want to personalize your Mechwarriors and role-play what happens when your warrior is out of his cockpit and off the battlefield.)

6. Interstellar Operations (Yet to be released. Where Tactical Ops focuses on individual planets and their conditions, and Strategic Ops gets off of the planet, but stays within the context of a Solar System, Interstellar Ops is supposed to take things from a Galactic, System to System perspective.)

I use the first 3 books constantly. Strat Ops and the RPG are nice when you want to expand things beyond a series of individual games between relatively ambiguous forces.

I've posted some helpful hints for beginners in the BT forums here before. The links are extremely helpful though and I highly recommend checking them all out. Rather than type them all out, just click HERE to go the post directly.

Edit: When I began typing, there hadn't been a single reply yet made. I typed so much that a fully-developed thread sprung up!


I always feel like it is kind of a race to see which of us responds to a BattleTech question first.
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  • Last edited Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:59 am (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:58 am
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Brian Gomez
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keethrax wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
It depends on your point of view. For many fans of the Succession War era, the removal and/or graphical redesign of the "unseen" mechs was a pretty big deal. I myself liked many of the Studio Nue designs, but didn't find their graphical representation to be critical to the game. Great graphic design helps immerse the player in the game, especially when you're using the miniatures, but it's not like the only mechs that looked cool were the Studio Nue "unseen."



*cough*I have all the unseen in metal*cough*


Nice.
I have some in metal, some in plastic from some of the old Plastech and base game box sets. Others have eluded me for some time. I'm still looking for an affordable Stone Rhino/Behemoth. Yes, I know it's not one of the classic unseen, but it's unseen nonetheless.

One of these days I'm going to have to take a pic of all my mechs, but I just got done dismantling and stripping them with Simple Green. Many of my mechs looked disappointing to me since they were glued and painted years ago when I wasn't so concerned with how they looked. Now that my skills have improved and my tastes refined, I wanted to go back and do them a bit of justice.

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Ron D
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keethrax wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
It depends on your point of view. For many fans of the Succession War era, the removal and/or graphical redesign of the "unseen" mechs was a pretty big deal. I myself liked many of the Studio Nue designs, but didn't find their graphical representation to be critical to the game. Great graphic design helps immerse the player in the game, especially when you're using the miniatures, but it's not like the only mechs that looked cool were the Studio Nue "unseen."



*cough*I have all the unseen in metal*cough*


For what its worth - the "unseen replacements" or "reseen" are new artwork versions of the unseen that started existing during the 3060s in game time. Prior to that point in the timeline, the unseen exist and are manufactured, Catalyst just isn't allowed to print artwork of them any more. In the 3060s, as a number of factories were re-tooled to produce more modern versions of some classic 'Mechs (called Project Phoenix), the reseen came around. Of course, Catalyst can print these pictures. Obviously, what I just wrote was the very short and simplified version, but you get the point. Fan reactions have been mixed.
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Ron D
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hskrfn822 wrote:
keethrax wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
It depends on your point of view. For many fans of the Succession War era, the removal and/or graphical redesign of the "unseen" mechs was a pretty big deal. I myself liked many of the Studio Nue designs, but didn't find their graphical representation to be critical to the game. Great graphic design helps immerse the player in the game, especially when you're using the miniatures, but it's not like the only mechs that looked cool were the Studio Nue "unseen."



*cough*I have all the unseen in metal*cough*


Nice.
I have some in metal, some in plastic from some of the old Plastech and base game box sets. Others have eluded me for some time. I'm still looking for an affordable Stone Rhino/Behemoth. Yes, I know it's not one of the classic unseen, but it's unseen nonetheless.

One of these days I'm going to have to take a pic of all my mechs, but I just got done dismantling and stripping them with Simple Green. Many of my mechs looked disappointing to me since they were glued and painted years ago when I wasn't so concerned with how they looked. Now that my skills have improved and my tastes refined, I wanted to go back and do them a bit of justice.



Are you looking for a BattleDroids Behemoth or a 3055 Behemoth? The BattleDroids one is worth a fortune and you'll probably never find one cheap. If you are just looking for the 3055 Behemoth (the one on the cover of the original TRO 3055), you shouldn't have much trouble buying or trading for one over at Lords of the Battlefield, especially if you don't mind doing a little work on the arms. The arms were notoriously fragile and it usually isn't too hard to score a great deal on one with broken arms, as long as you don't mind pinning them back together.
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Brian Gomez
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Dr Lucky wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
keethrax wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
It depends on your point of view. For many fans of the Succession War era, the removal and/or graphical redesign of the "unseen" mechs was a pretty big deal. I myself liked many of the Studio Nue designs, but didn't find their graphical representation to be critical to the game. Great graphic design helps immerse the player in the game, especially when you're using the miniatures, but it's not like the only mechs that looked cool were the Studio Nue "unseen."



*cough*I have all the unseen in metal*cough*


Nice.
I have some in metal, some in plastic from some of the old Plastech and base game box sets. Others have eluded me for some time. I'm still looking for an affordable Stone Rhino/Behemoth. Yes, I know it's not one of the classic unseen, but it's unseen nonetheless.

One of these days I'm going to have to take a pic of all my mechs, but I just got done dismantling and stripping them with Simple Green. Many of my mechs looked disappointing to me since they were glued and painted years ago when I wasn't so concerned with how they looked. Now that my skills have improved and my tastes refined, I wanted to go back and do them a bit of justice.



Are you looking for a BattleDroids Behemoth or a 3055 Behemoth? The BattleDroids one is worth a fortune and you'll probably never find one cheap. If you are just looking for the 3055 Behemoth (the one on the cover of the original TRO 3055), you shouldn't have much trouble buying or trading for one over at Lords of the Battlefield, especially if you don't mind doing a little work on the arms. The arms were notoriously fragile and it usually isn't too hard to score a great deal on one with broken arms, as long as you don't mind pinning them back together.


You know, for as much as I love Battletech and spend money on it, I've never actually been to LotB. Perhaps I should.

Re: the Behemoth, I've seen two Battledroids era Behemoths get auctioned on eBay in the past 3 months. I think both went for $100+, but I was shocked to see that many change hands in such short time. As far as the 3055 mech goes, I keep seeing ones with broken arms, but avoided them. Perhaps it's time I just bit the bullet and break out my pin vise.
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I might start another thread about it, but I have Hot Wire Foam Factory Pro kit along with many accessories, including a scroll table, that I was going to begin making 3d terrain with marked hexes like the old GeoHex stuff. Obviously I'd make the first stuff for myself, but do any of you think there'd be people interested in purchasing some for themselves, assuming I price it right?
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hskrfn822 wrote:
You know, for as much as I love Battletech and spend money on it, I've never actually been to LotB. Perhaps I should.

Re: the Behemoth, I've seen two Battledroids era Behemoths get auctioned on eBay in the past 3 months. I think both went for $100+, but I was shocked to see that many change hands in such short time. As far as the 3055 mech goes, I keep seeing ones with broken arms, but avoided them. Perhaps it's time I just bit the bullet and break out my pin vise.


Most of the broken arms I've seen happen at the narrowest point on the upper arm. Because it is in a narrow point between two roughly rectangular pieces, it is really easy to pin and really hard to notice the damage afterwards. My advice is to look for a used Behemoth with an intact top gun (the top gun is sometimes missing on old Behemoths) and don't worry about fixing damage to the arms.
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On a related note: Does anyone know what's up with the classicbattletech.com website?
 
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keethrax wrote:
On a related note: Does anyone know what's up with the classicbattletech.com website?


It's been moved to http://bg.battletech.com/
The CBT site was redirecting for a while. I'm not sure why it isn't any more.
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Dr Lucky wrote:
keethrax wrote:
On a related note: Does anyone know what's up with the classicbattletech.com website?


It's been moved to http://bg.battletech.com/
The CBT site was redirecting for a while. I'm not sure why it isn't any more.


Thanks! The classic one was what my browser autofilled in for me having been there before,. Since it worked until a day or two ago, I never even noticed that it wasn't the bg.battletech.com one.
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  • Last edited Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:15 pm (Total Number of Edits: 2)
  • Posted Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:12 pm
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Truth be told the older 3rd Edition ruleset works just fine. If you have your old Compendium and 3025/3026/2750 TRO's and a few mapsheets, you're more than ready to tackle whatever scenario you want. I myself want to get Total Warfare but I just can't justify the costs right now.

I wish I had a regular BT group.
 
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StealthDonut wrote:
Truth be told the older 3rd Edition ruleset works just fine. If you have your old Compendium and 3025/3026/2750 TRO's and a few mapsheets, you're more than ready to tackle whatever scenario you want. I myself want to get Total Warfare but I just can't justify the costs right now.

I wish I had a regular BT group.


I have my old Compendium, but the binding failed on it within a year of buying it. So it's a bit of a mess and a pain to use.
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You can usually find a copy on eBay for a few bucks. My Compendium is showing its age too, but I still love it. cool
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No more confusing me for tickmanfan. I swear I got more thumbs when I was him!
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The $wingin' Utter$ are a kickass punk band from California. Look em up.
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FWIW, I'm not advocating one rules set or another. I got started playing BT back in 1989 and bought every box set and rules compilation ever put out. I'm just used to giving pointers and advice to people that have never played one game and are starting from square one.

I didn't mind the changes to the rules that have been made with the release of Total Warfare. I most certainly didn't need the book, but I liked that it was hard bound and I liked that it compiled Mech, Vee, ASF, BA, Troops and everything all into one book. Yeah, the fluff annoys some, but I have all the important pages tabbed and usually slap the charts on the record sheets at SSW. It's nice that the more advanced rules in TechManual, Tac Ops, Strat Ops and A Time of War, all match up with Total Warfare. So much of what's in these books are things that were only mentioned in one obscure field report or module. Rather than scouring the Internet for some out of print 2cm thin book, all one needs to do now is buy the hardback books. Yeah, they're pricey, but they'll last a lot longer than my old books, which were showing their age so much, I shelved em. Besides, many of the people I currently play with only got into the game within the past 5-6 years and only know the game in its current form.

BTW, Ryan. Clutch kicks much ass. My opinion of you just skyrocketed. Not that it was super low to begin with or anything! I just got done listening to Blast Tyrant and Pure Rock Fury.
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  • Last edited Thu Apr 5, 2012 1:38 am (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Thu Apr 5, 2012 1:35 am
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Francisco J. PiƱa A.
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Visit my blog: http://wargamerchileno.blogspot.com
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If you don't mind digital copies, Catalyst Games Labs offers a Vintage Rulebook Bundle on PDF, which includes the 5 previous rules compilations, from the 1987 BattleTech Manual to the 2005 Revised Master Rules.

Here's the product link on DrivethruRPG:

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/81896/BattleTech%3A-Vi...

BTW, all the rulebooks in the current line are also available in PDF for less than half the price of the hardbacks. Of course they're not the same, but if you own a tablet or an e-reader, they're quite practical, and cheap
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  • Last edited Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:41 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
  • Posted Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:27 pm
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