S. R.
Germany
Mainz
Rheinland-Pfalz
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Folks, I have some wording questions concerning three cards. Maybe you can help me clarify how they have to be understood.
Sure, there is common sense, and there is the FAQ, but concerning these three cards I still am not sure - or did not find an official answer...
Colonialism (4):
The card's Cooperative Dogma says: "[Factory] Draw and archive a [3]. If it provides (crown), repeat this Dogma."
What I am wondering is the order of actions that are mentioned in the dogma, concerning the provision of crown symbols. The card says first "draw and archive" and only then "if it provides".
As I understand it, the repetition condition only applies AFTER the archive action. Meaning the card only provides crown symbols if the appropriate colour stack is splayed.
But then, this is too coincidental, hinging on two separate random conditions...
Communism (8):
This card's Cooperative dogma says "[tree] You may archive all cards from your hand..."
The problem here is the wording. Does this mean "You may (only) archive all..." or "You may archive any and all..."? Because if you only have the choice of archiving none or all, and nothing in between, the card has a different impact...
Fission (9):
This card has already been explained in the FAQ. However, I am still not 100% sure if I understand it right. According to the Supremacy Dogma, all players with fewer [clock] symbols draw a [10] card. Then, if at least one of those cards is read, ALL cards of ALL players are destroyed (excluding the Dominations AND the just drawn cards). This includes the player who has the "Fission" card as an active card.
So basically, this is a tabula rasa card, and is bad for the player who has it as an active card - he would not be allowed to draw a 10, so would have no cards left, with the exception of his dominations, right?
And finally, this is (to my knowledge) the only card that uses the term "discard" - everywhere else the term "recycle" is used. This means that the cards destroyed this way are no longer in the game, right?
Thanks for your help!
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Tor Sverre Lund
Norway
Trondheim
Sør-Trøndelag
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I really think they've overcomplicated stuff a bit with the new wording in the Iello version ... Anywho:
1) You first draw and archive, no matter what the card shows. But if it had a crown on it ('provide' is a horrible use here, it used to just say 'if it has a crown on it') you draw yet another card and archive, again checking for crown, etc.
2) Yes, it's all or nothing.
3) Bah, stupid rewording again. But yes, the effect is supposed to remove the cards from the game entirely, just return them to the box and try to rebuild with what is left.
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Rafal Kruczek
Poland
Legnica
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Dumon wrote:
Fission (9):
This card has already been explained in the FAQ. However, I am still not 100% sure if I understand it right. According to the Supremacy Dogma, all players with fewer [clock] symbols draw a [10] card. Then, if at least one of those cards is read, ALL cards of ALL players are destroyed (excluding the Dominations AND the just drawn cards). This includes the player who has the "Fission" card as an active card.
So basically, this is a tabula rasa card, and is bad for the player who has it as an active card - he would not be allowed to draw a 10, so would have no cards left, with the exception of his dominations, right?
And finally, this is (to my knowledge) the only card that uses the term "discard" - everywhere else the term "recycle" is used. This means that the cards destroyed this way are no longer in the game, right?
You are 90% right , but you got timing wrong. In your interpretation you can draw and consequently remove/discard too much of 10 cards and possibly end game prematurely.
The demand/supremacy part of dogma each player with less Clocks draws and reveals a card, but if any of them is red, no more cards is drawn (becouse cards says that effect of dogma end) and all cards from all players are removed. Under no circumstances this card could cause some players to have a 10 card remaining on hand after remove/discard all cards clause is executed.
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S. R.
Germany
Mainz
Rheinland-Pfalz
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Thank you for pointing that out. I somehow misread that part in the FAQ.
And thanks for the other answers, as well...
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Andy Latto
United States
Foxboro
Massachusetts
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Dumon wrote:
Fission (9):
This card has already been explained in the FAQ. However, I am still not 100% sure if I understand it right. According to the Supremacy Dogma, all players with fewer [clock] symbols draw a [10] card. Then, if at least one of those cards is read, ALL cards of ALL players are destroyed (excluding the Dominations AND the just drawn cards).
I have the Asmadi edition of the game, not the Iello edition, so I don't know the exact wording on your version of the fission card. But in the Asmadi edition, the cards just drawn are not excluded; they are removed from the game like everything else (except what Asmadi calls "Achievements", which is what I think Iello calls "Dominations".
What is there in the wording of the card that makes you think that the just-drawn cards are not destroyed along with everything else?
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S. R.
Germany
Mainz
Rheinland-Pfalz
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Two things, actually. The [10] cards are drawn and revealed. They are not part of the hand nor the stacks or the zone nor the scored cards.
But this is cleared up in the FAQ, as it is said there that they are discarded, aswell. The second thing was that I misread the FAQ answer...
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Sean McCarthy
United States
Seattle
Washington
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When you draw a card it goes into your hand.
It is revealed, and it's in your hand.
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Chris Cieslik
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
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Yep, the card is in hand when it is revealed, and thus subject to explodey. And yes, explodey is the appropriate language-independent version of what happens, and applies to both the Iello and Asmadi editions.
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Rafal Kruczek
Poland
Legnica
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Asmadi version of Fission: " [Clock]: I demand you draw a 10! If it is red, remove all hands, boards, and score piles from the game! If
this occurs, the dogma action is complete."
I read IELLO's version of Fission and it is missing "dogma action is complete" text. This is functional change, which can matter for example in situation, when there number more players under demand is higher then number of cards in 10 pile (using this version of Fission then ends the game regardless of color of the cards).
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Chris Cieslik
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
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rafal100 wrote: Asmadi version of Fission: " [Clock]: I demand you draw a 10! If it is red, remove all hands, boards, and score piles from the game! If
this occurs, the dogma action is complete."
I read IELLO's version of Fission and it is missing "dogma action is complete" text. This is functional change, which can matter for example in situation, when there number more players under demand is higher then number of cards in 10 pile (using this version of Fission then ends the game regardless of color of the cards).
Uh oh, that is a problem. That would imply that in a 4 player game, if I activate Fission (and have more Efficiency than all 3 other players), the first one could draw and reveal a red card, have everything explode, and then the other two players would still draw and reveal a 10 (potentially keeping it!)
I do not believe this was an intended change.
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Rafal Kruczek
Poland
Legnica
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angelkurisu wrote: (and have more Efficiency than all 3 other players),
Are there official names for icons?
angelkurisu wrote:
I do not believe this was an intended change.
Iello's editors cut a lot of card text that was a clarification or a remainder for example Translation and Encyclopedia lost "If you meld one you must meld all" sentence, that wasn't really necessary in dogma effect text. But as indicates Original Poster's question, that such information should remain as remainder in parentheses.
I really appreciate intention of simplifying of terminology. But execution of this changes really added difficulty in some places. For example removing point costs of achievements from card backs ow requires from player multiplication (There is real chance of making mistake when concentrating on game strategy/tactics) and increases chances of incorrectly adding a 10 to achievements during setup.
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