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Subject: Building a seventh skill card deck rss

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David Turczi
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Since we have quite many active opinionated people around here can you give me advice on this too?

TDaver wrote:
On another note what are other people's thoughts regarding Ripshawd's opinion on the "Prove Faith" thingie?
Ripshawd wrote:
...
None of these deal with resources (except Power Failure in a secondary way).

I’m also not set on the threshold for the trigger – perhaps the threshold is set for each crisis separately? Just add it as a number on the icon.

Lastly, I wonder if what is printed shouldn’t be the reward for playing faith into the check, rather than the penalty for not playing faith into the check.
 
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Daniel Loke
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LL6869 wrote:
Just to weigh in again with a little extra perspective. As an example, several states in America have passed or are trying to pass 'personhood' laws. These laws define any egg that has been fertilized as legally being a person. Therefor anything that terminates that life at any stage is considered murder.

This is an end run around Roe v Wade. On a personal level, this deeply offends me, as it directly contradicts established law and my own personal feelings on the matter. When I see the word Abortion, these are the things that go through my mind right now. They fill me with something very close to rage, as it's a horrible issue that I've had to face myself in the past and had to make very personal choices about.

However, for other Americans (and I'm sure other people abroad) they can see that word and be enraged that people are legally allowed to kill babies. There is little room within either camp for positive or indifferent feelings whenever you see this word.

I also am completely fine with the text and flavor text. That places it within a context within the show.

And also, all but the most hardened Atheists or Fundamentalists will accept Faith cards. For one thing, Faith is a terribly personal matter, it's caused problems in the past but it's listed as 'Faith' not 'Religion.' And in the context of the show itself the religion is not only completely fabricated, but within the world of the story it's quite real, important and in fact based on some sort of fact itself.

But that's just my view.


That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I deeply apologize for bringing your personal life into this but prior to this I really could not see how a mention of a word could offend people. I had thought we were trying to be overly politically correct, like being afraid to call black people black.

But now I see there's genuine concern regarding its use and I thank you for your thoughts.

I still prefer the original name but I'm not going to push as hard for it.

And I'm still curious as to whether or not people are turned off by some of the other issues I previously mentioned.

Regarding Prove Faith thingy:

Variable number for each Crisis sounds OK. Perhaps

CRISIS
--------------------
| Pass | No Effect |
| Fail | YOU LOSE |
| ∞ 6+ | Draw Faith |
| ∞ 5- | LOSE MORE |
--------------------


His issues with Blind Faith could be solved by making it the 0-strength card.
 
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David Turczi
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schmloof wrote:
His issues with Blind Faith could be solved by making it the 0-strength card.


But that would wreak havoc with the tightly balanced card values!!
And it's so rare, that it hardly comes out more than three times a game.

I'm willing to change Prove Faith (I'm against printing BOTH positive and negative, as my cards are pretty FULL), but I want to keep Blind Faith as is.
 
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Mark L
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Well, Blind Faith doesn't have to make all Faith cards positive. It could just be the skip cylon ship/jump effect and it would be fine.
 
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David Turczi
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markino wrote:
Well, Blind Faith doesn't have to make all Faith cards positive. It could just be the skip cylon ship/jump effect and it would be fine.


But then how can the humans "counterspike"?

What if I leave Blind Faith without the make positive stuff, and I put that on Prayer Heard? would that be better?
 
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Jan Itor
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As to some of the other issues-
suicide- it's more of a catholic issue and we lean protestant. I'm sure a catholic crowd would be more concerned about it.

Religious extremism - we only care if it's islamists, our own religous leanings are not questioned by most of us. It may even be encouraged in some parts.
I saw important issues that you listed, but i don't think they'd provoke such a ready response at most tables except maybe
religon. I've gamed in a group that had both devote and strongly atheist. That sucked.
Something i don't think you mentioned is the word "homosexual". Is gaeta's sexuality mentioned in any of the cards? Maybe it's hinted at, but our culture gets really sensitive about the topic. That's another topic that will set off arguments.

The moment that i dread when gaming is when someone says, "Did you hear what Limbaugh/or Colbert said about x?" Unless the table agrees on the issue the game is usually over at that point.
 
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Mark L
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TDaver wrote:
markino wrote:
Well, Blind Faith doesn't have to make all Faith cards positive. It could just be the skip cylon ship/jump effect and it would be fine.


But then how can the humans "counterspike"?

What if I leave Blind Faith without the make positive stuff, and I put that on Prayer Heard? would that be better?


Well the 0-skill cards are designed so that they're useful for both human and cylon depending on the circumstance. Prayer Heard is useful for both at the same time... which is already a departure from the other 0-skill cards. Making it make Faith positive is a strictly pro-human move and it makes Prayer Heard completely useless for Cylons.

Why do you need a way for the humans to counter-spike? If a cylon drops Blind Faith in for -4, and the humans end up passing by more than 4 anyway, then he's just shot himself in the foot. Same goes for overzealous humans who fail to account for a cylon spike. In other words, Blind Faith indeed

Also, I have to say I don't like Master your Own Fate. Just seems totally unnecessary. The Quorum Deck is already thick enough, so much so that I'm tempted to replace Probation with Release Cylon Mugshots so finding that card isn't a crapshoot anymore.
 
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David Turczi
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Counterspike:
Human goes reckless
Cylon spikes with Faith
Human counterspikes with Blind Faith


this came up in F2F with hilarious results...
 
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Mark L
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Oh right, counterspiking...

Honestly? I don't know why Higher Power has the "no Reckless" clause. The only way to make something Reckless secretly is Price of Failure, which is a corner case. Otherwise everyone knows whether the check is Reckless before cards are played in and will play, or not play, Higher Power accordingly.

I guess Cylons will want to hang on to those Price of Failures for those checks where they know humans will Faith up... it's tricky for sure.

Also, I'd like to come out and support Ripshawd's change to Leap of Faith... I don't see why a human would ever use it in its current form (besides having human Cain on the team).
 
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David Turczi
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markino wrote:
I don't see why a human would ever use it in its current form (besides having human Cain on the team).

Why would you use it with the Jump track on start or maybe even red-1? Really?
 
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TDaver wrote:
markino wrote:
I don't see why a human would ever use it in its current form (besides having human Cain on the team).

Why would you use it with the Jump track on start or maybe even red-1? Really?


Oh right, you can use it with the track on Start. >< Still, I don't like the design. It's useful for humans when they can game the card such that the first half does nothing (or at best half the effect), and absolutely useless otherwise.

Also, the picture is now woefully out of place. If I were to make a card based on that picture...

Reduce all resources by 1, then reveal the second card of the Destination Deck. If it is a 1- or 3-distance Destination, bury it. Otherwise, immediately jump the fleet (even if the fleet marker is in a Red space).

Off the top of my head, haha.
 
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[Place some sort of banner here]
My issues with Blind Faith are three-fold: The power is already used on a card, the card is a guaranteed Positive 4 (making it very difficult for Cylons to use), and I dislike tagging on the trigger here. I really like my idea for an alternate Declare Emergency card - one that is of variable strength. It's text isn't useful for the Cylons, but it's still a high-valued spike card in their hands (which is, and should be, the main use of Skill cards for Cylons).

Leap of Faith doesn't bother me in it's current format. It does take an action to regain a resource, and if you want to game it, you have to plan to do it at the right time. Granted, the 'right time' is usually when the board is clear of Cylons and you have a little room to breathe. My issue is that the effect doesn't match the picture now. I'm good either way with this one.


Thoughts on my response to the Destinations (particularly Stay and Fight & The Hub) or the Quorum card Mater Your Own Fate?
 
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David Turczi
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Ripshawd wrote:
[Place some sort of banner here]
My issues with Blind Faith are three-fold: The power is already used on a card, the card is a guaranteed Positive 4 (making it very difficult for Cylons to use), and I dislike tagging on the trigger here. I really like my idea for an alternate Declare Emergency card - one that is of variable strength. It's text isn't useful for the Cylons, but it's still a high-valued spike card in their hands (which is, and should be, the main use of Skill cards for Cylons).

Leap of Faith doesn't bother me in it's current format. It does take an action to regain a resource, and if you want to game it, you have to plan to do it at the right time. Granted, the 'right time' is usually when the board is clear of Cylons and you have a little room to breathe. My issue is that the effect doesn't match the picture now. I'm good either way with this one.


Thoughts on my response to the Destinations (particularly Stay and Fight & The Hub) or the Quorum card Mater Your Own Fate?


- Leap of Faith will stay, if someone can give me a better picture, I'll replace it.
- Blind Faith I'm willing to take the always positive off, but I really think we should have a "counterspike" card. Any candidates to add to/replace with?
-Stay and Fight: I tried what you said the issue of "it messes with the rules" is a big no-no. How about: "Autoattack the CFB and reset the pursuit track"?
-Hub: It's a 1fuel, 1 destination card. It's not like the humans don't pay the price. I'm sorry but I really like it. And it's not like it's gonna come out in every game...
-Master Your Own Fate I'm not particularly attached to. If the consensus is that it's a bad idea, I'll throw it out. I still think it's a good way to boost Roslin The "social issue" card and the religious leader have to stay.
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Jan Itor
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TDaver wrote:

- Leap of Faith will stay, if someone can give me a better picture, I'll replace it.


Ask, and ye shall recieve.



 
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Carlo Gozzi
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Hello everyone!

Currently catching up on your ideas after David contacted me for an upcomming session.

I like the proposals of the 7th skill decks and it's complements, my first tought is on the Leap of faith card... maybe it has already been answered (sorry if it's the case) but

In order to avoid any abuse of the card, it should be restricted that the human MUST decrease the jump track by 2 to make it work. It they can't then they cannot use the card effect. It will be very easy to abuse the card without this.

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TDaver wrote:
- Leap of Faith will stay, if someone can give me a better picture, I'll replace it.
- Blind Faith I'm willing to take the always positive off, but I really think we should have a "counterspike" card. Any candidates to add to/replace with?
-Stay and Fight: I tried what you said the issue of "it messes with the rules" is a big no-no. How about: "Autoattack the CFB and reset the pursuit track"?
-Hub: It's a 1fuel, 1 destination card. It's not like the humans don't pay the price. I'm sorry but I really like it. And it's not like it's gonna come out in every game...
-Master Your Own Fate I'm not particularly attached to. If the consensus is that it's a bad idea, I'll throw it out. I still think it's a good way to boost Roslin The "social issue" card and the religious leader have to stay.


I have no problems with Leap of Faith. Keep it.

I'm not understanding what you're looking for in a 'counterspike' card. If the check is Reckless, Faith is negative. I like that balance and I don't see a reason to circumvent that. The 'counterspike' is guessing when Cylons are going to throw Faith at a check and adding a Higher Power to make it positive.

Stay and Fight could be worded as: "Advance the Pursuit Track to 'Auto-Attack'. Any character on Galactica with piloting in his skill set may immediately launch himself in a viper. Decrease the Jump Preparation track by 1."

The reasoning of "It's not like it's going to come out in every game" is the opposite of what you need to look at when designing a card. Assume it's in every game and in every situation. This card makes the Resurrection Ship worthless in every single game. No Cylon is going to draw extra Super Crisis cards with the possibility of this coming up in the Destination deck. It's a huge game changer for the Cylons. A Super Crisis card takes an entire turn to draw - they should hit hard. A core part of Cylon strategy is often determining when it is best to play your Super Crises. This is the single card that bothers me the most in the set.

Master Your Own Fate - I'm on the fence on this one. Granted, Anders can dig through three of the decks to search for a card with his ability. But, I think Anders is an awful character to play! =D This one doesn't bother me that much, but once I saw it, I immediately thought 'Political Prowess dig'. That's all I'd use if for.
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David Turczi
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Vorpalgens wrote:

In order to avoid any abuse of the card, it should be restricted that the human MUST decrease the jump track by 2 to make it work. It they can't then they cannot use the card effect. It will be very easy to abuse the card without this.



Faith cards are designed to be useful for both sides. With the restriction it would be extermely pro-cylon.
 
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David Turczi
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Regarding the Hub:
How about instead of disabling SuperCrisis, it'll cost a skill card to play?
 
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TDaver wrote:
Vorpalgens wrote:

In order to avoid any abuse of the card, it should be restricted that the human MUST decrease the jump track by 2 to make it work. It they can't then they cannot use the card effect. It will be very easy to abuse the card without this.



Faith cards are designed to be useful for both sides. With the restriction it would be extermely pro-cylon.


As it'll be extremely pro-human without it.

The cylon benefits from it by having the jump track decreased by 2, if they don't have this and the humans wisely use it after a jump each time. The cylons gets nothing.

Overall a negative card that can be turned positive... so even on that end IMO
 
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David Turczi
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Vorpalgens wrote:
TDaver wrote:
Vorpalgens wrote:

In order to avoid any abuse of the card, it should be restricted that the human MUST decrease the jump track by 2 to make it work. It they can't then they cannot use the card effect. It will be very easy to abuse the card without this.



Faith cards are designed to be useful for both sides. With the restriction it would be extermely pro-cylon.


As it'll be extremely pro-human without it.

The cylon benefits from it by having the jump track decreased by 2, if they don't have this and the humans wisely use it after a jump each time. The cylons gets nothing.

Overall a negative card that can be turned positive... so even on that end IMO


No, it shouldn't be beneficial to both at the same time.
If the cylon uses it, he will increase the highest resource (or food ) and use it at a bad time.
A human will use it right after jump to increase the most critical resource.
It is extremely beneficial to both sides, but only one at a time, and very situational.

LAst time we used it in F2F a human digged for it, got it, but by the time his teammates got around to XO him, he turned cylon at sleeper, and revealed instead - only to use Leap of Faith much later when the jump track hurt was worth the +1 population.
Humans lost on population
 
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Daniel Loke
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Leap of Faith:

Human: Increase Jump prep by 2, decrease X resources by 1
Cylon: Decrease Jump prep by 2, increase Y resources by 1

...where X and Y can be "the highest", "the two lowest", "all", etc.
 
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David Turczi
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schmloof wrote:
Leap of Faith:

Human: Increase Jump prep by 2, decrease X resources by 1
Cylon: Decrease Jump prep by 2, increase Y resources by 1

...where X and Y can be "the highest", "the two lowest", "all", etc.


Welcome to the party.
My original text was:
Original Faith wrote:
Action: Decrease the Jump preparation track by 2 to increase any one resource by 1 or Increase the Jump Preparation track by 1 to decrease any resource by 2. You may not choose the first option if the Jump Preparation track is on the "start" place.

I got feedback that
a. too wordy
b. would be better to make completely symmetric, not to use "Cylon Action" and such
 
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TDaver wrote:
Vorpalgens wrote:
TDaver wrote:
Vorpalgens wrote:

In order to avoid any abuse of the card, it should be restricted that the human MUST decrease the jump track by 2 to make it work. It they can't then they cannot use the card effect. It will be very easy to abuse the card without this.



Faith cards are designed to be useful for both sides. With the restriction it would be extermely pro-cylon.


As it'll be extremely pro-human without it.

The cylon benefits from it by having the jump track decreased by 2, if they don't have this and the humans wisely use it after a jump each time. The cylons gets nothing.

Overall a negative card that can be turned positive... so even on that end IMO


No, it shouldn't be beneficial to both at the same time.
If the cylon uses it, he will increase the highest resource (or food ) and use it at a bad time.
A human will use it right after jump to increase the most critical resource.
It is extremely beneficial to both sides, but only one at a time, and very situational.

LAst time we used it in F2F a human digged for it, got it, but by the time his teammates got around to XO him, he turned cylon at sleeper, and revealed instead - only to use Leap of Faith much later when the jump track hurt was worth the +1 population.
Humans lost on population


Good point, didn't view it that way!

I yield then , but can't wait to try it!
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TDaver wrote:
Regarding the Hub:
How about instead of disabling SuperCrisis, it'll cost a skill card to play?

That would be much better! Even 'Cylons cannot contribute Skill Cards to Super Crisis skill checks' would be a good card. Something to lessen the potential blow of Super Crisis cards without them being a removed component of the game.
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David Turczi
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Just back from a 3v2 Faith to Kobol game (skill cards only)
Faith is not pro human enough for it to warrant an additional PUNISHMENT method.

So I'm considering changing Prove Faith to
- variable target
- fail is always "current player must discard 1 (2?) random skill cards
- if target is met benefit ensues

Deciphering Music wrote:
PF8 - Increase the Jump Preparation track by 1

Harsh Reality wrote:
Fail changed to -1 morale, -1 food
PF5 - Every human may draw 2 Faith skill cards

Rookie Mistake wrote:
PF4 - Current player may look at one civilian and then move it to an adjacent space sector

Visions of Your Own Death wrote:
Fail changed to President discards 2 skill cards, then roll a die. If 4 or less, President is executed
PF4 - The President and the Current Player may draw 2 Skill Cards (may come outside of their skillset)

Not to be Human wrote:
PF5 - Current player may remove up to 3 raiders from one space area

Road Less Travelled will NOT have Prove Faith icon
Confrontation at Gunpoint wrote:
PF6 - The President may move one player from the Brig to any location on Galactica

Messengers from God wrote:
PF8 - +1 morale


For Frak Earth I was thinking changing the fail to -1 pop, -1 morale, -1 dest, and making the PF7 regain the lost morale, but I'm afraid of humans gaming it with faith+iron will to make it a +1 morale card which is ridiculus for a super crisis.

Any ideas?
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