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Battlestar Galactica: Exodus Expansion» Forums » Variants

Subject: Building a seventh skill card deck rss

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David Turczi
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If we can't come up with a good Prove Faith mechanism, I'll just scrap the PF, and keep the crises. So people help me!
 
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Jan Itor
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have class soonish. might post more detailed thoughts at noonish my time.
 
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David Turczi
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Valen200 wrote:
have class soonish. might post more detailed thoughts at noonish my time.
goodish.
 
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Jan Itor
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TDaver wrote:
Just back from a 3v2 Faith to Kobol game (skill cards only)
Faith is not pro human enough for it to warrant an additional PUNISHMENT method.

So I'm considering changing Prove Faith to
- variable target
- fail is always "current player must discard 1 (2?) random skill cards
- if target is met benefit ensues

Deciphering Music wrote:
PF8 - Increase the Jump Preparation track by 1

Harsh Reality wrote:
Fail changed to -1 morale, -1 food
PF5 - Every human may draw 2 Faith skill cards

Rookie Mistake wrote:
PF4 - Current player may look at one civilian and then move it to an adjacent space sector

Visions of Your Own Death wrote:
Fail changed to President discards 2 skill cards, then roll a die. If 4 or less, President is executed
PF4 - The President and the Current Player may draw 2 Skill Cards (may come outside of their skillset)

Not to be Human wrote:
PF5 - Current player may remove up to 3 raiders from one space area

Road Less Travelled will NOT have Prove Faith icon
Confrontation at Gunpoint wrote:
PF6 - The President may move one player from the Brig to any location on Galactica

Messengers from God wrote:
PF8 - +1 morale


For Frak Earth I was thinking changing the fail to -1 pop, -1 morale, -1 dest, and making the PF7 regain the lost morale, but I'm afraid of humans gaming it with faith+iron will to make it a +1 morale card which is ridiculus for a super crisis.

Any ideas?


just to double check - these cards do not have faith as apositive color corect? I like the mechanic if there is tension about wether going for pf will help the check or hurt it. if you can help the check and get the pf it seems silly. if you have to hope someone will make it positive to go for it, then i can see t.
 
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I generally like these better. I haven't looked in detail at each card, but after just seeing the list of effects, I don't have any immediate complaints.

What if Frak Earth was the reverse for the humans - what if hitting the Faith total was another disadvantage? "PF6: All Cylon players draw 2 Faith Skill cards."

I not sure if you need the negative aspect of the Prove Faith mechanic (the discard a random card).

Another idea to put in your back pocket for these... "PF6: Reduce this skill check's difficulty by 2." Or... "PF5: Engineering cards in this skill check count as positive strength."
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David Turczi
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Valen200 wrote:
just to double check - these cards do not have faith as apositive color corect? I like the mechanic if there is tension about wether going for pf will help the check or hurt it. if you can help the check and get the pf it seems silly. if you have to hope someone will make it positive to go for it, then i can see t.


No, faith doesn't automatically count positive. Someone has to make it positive.

Love Ripshawd's idea on the super crisis!

Any other idea for "failing prove faith"? we need some incentive!
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Mateusz Kominiarczuk
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I'd go with "Everyone discards 2 random Skill Cards" for "failing prove Faith".

Or if you like -- PF (essentialy "crisis of faith") may become "crisis-in-crisis"? We're already halfway there: with PF changing difficulty and different "Pass" effects, all it needs is the addition of a "Fail" line.

Eg.:
Deciphering Music wrote:
PF8
Pass: Increase the Jump Preparation track by 1.
Fail: Current Player must discard 3 Skill Cards.

Harsh Reality wrote:
PF5
Pass: Every human may draw 2 Faith skill cards.
Fail: Decrease the Jump Preparation track by 1.

Rookie Mistake wrote:
PF4
Pass: Current Player may look at one civilian ship and then move it to an adjacent space sector.
Fail: Draw and destroy 1 civilian ship.

Visions of Your Own Death wrote:
PF4
Pass: The President and the Current Player may draw 2 Skill Cards (which may come from outside of their skillset).
Fail: Roll a die. On 4 or less the Current Player is executed.

Not to be Human wrote:
PF5
Pass: Current Player may remove up to 3 raiders from one space area.
Fail: Basestar fires.

Confrontation at Gunpoint wrote:
PF5
Pass: The President may move one player from the "Brig" to any location on Galactica.
Fail: Current player is sent to the "Brig".

Messengers from God wrote:
PF6
Pass: Faith cards in this skill check count as positive strength.
Fail: Increase this skill check's difficulty by 3.

Supercrisis: Frak Earth wrote:
PF6
Pass: Every Cylon may draw 2 Faith Skill Cards.
Fail: Every human must discard 2 random Skill Cards.

I avoided anything which would directly affect the resources. My main concern is that it may make PF too complex, and hard to fit on the Crisis card.
 
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What if all of these Prove Faith crises were Current Player Chooses crises? There would be an extra incentive for going for them - you could get a bonus with Faith.

I just think the negative side of not passing the mini-Faith skill check is odd - it's not directly written on the card. That is honestly my biggest issue with it; it's mostly a design elegance issue.
 
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David Turczi
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As stated, I don't have the space on the card to fit both a pass and a fail...

I was thinking "every contributing player (human and cylon) must discard 1 random skill card" for incentive. 2 just seems harsh...
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Mateusz Kominiarczuk
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"Contributing players only" may have nice effect on Cylons, as they may be discouraged from participating in those skillchecks (more so than humans).

"Consequence" is simple -- either there is a card with Consequence icon in the skill check, which triggers the written effect, or there isn't one and nothing special happens.

On the other hand, "Prove Faith" mechanism feels like a "mini-skill check", as Ripshawd wrote: there is a second difficulty class on the Crisis card which has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the skill check, and it cannot be broadened in any way. Besides, consequences of the failure (or the pass, although not both) are left unwritten, which is a bit curious.

Let's try another take. Why not integrate Faith directly into the skillcheck? It'd still be "negative by default", but in case of either success OR failure, there'd be an appropriate special effect (benefit?) -- yet only if there was a Faith skill card in the check.

If that would be the case, it would be a little helpful if the Faith skill cards had a little infinity symbol somewhere on them.
 
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Atomic Robo
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I never was hot on the prove faith mechanic, to idly comment.
 
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I think the random discard really penalizes Cylons, who are much more dependent on the number of Skill Cards they hold than humans tend to be. If it is 'Contributing Players Only', then it can still be Tanked without penalty. But, I also agree with Mateusz - the "Consequence" mechanic is nice and simple; not to continue to harp on the "design elegance" platform all day, but I think it's a big component of game fun and enjoyment. If a mechanic is streamlined and easy to understand, it's more fun.

The thing I don't like about the Prove Faith mechanic is that it can be guaranteed by one player - there's no way to spike it.

Alright, complete separation from the previous line of thinking. You need a Treachery card that is 'Skill Check: Discard all Higher Power cards played into this Skill Check.' There's your spike card against Faith. It's a Treachery card, so it's rare to be included. And, by discarding all Higher Power cards, all Faith in that check becomes negative. This in no way fixes the Prove Faith mechanic, I just thought I should put it in here as an idea.
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Atomic Robo
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Ripshawd wrote:
But, I also agree with Mateusz - the "Consequence" mechanic is nice and simple; not to continue to harp on the "design elegance" platform all day, but I think it's a big component of game fun and enjoyment. If a mechanic is streamlined and easy to understand, it's more fun.

+1 (See my arguments on the Rebel thread.)
 
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David Turczi
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ZsuEtAm wrote:
Let's try another take. Why not integrate Faith directly into the skillcheck? It'd still be "negative by default", but in case of either success OR failure, there'd be an appropriate special effect


Hmm... What if I ditch the "fail" part of PF? If the target Faith is met, trigger the effect. That's all.
 
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David Turczi
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Okay, screw it, there shouldn't be a secondary skill check thing.

Guide them to their Destiny, Godsent, Touch Their Souls and Despite Their Differences (in other words all Faith cards but Higher Power, Prayer Heard, Blind Faith and Leap of Faith) get an infinity symbol.

There will be a number next to the Prove Faith icon (1 or 2). If there are that many infinity symbol'd cards in the check the positivish effect triggers.

Deciphering Music wrote:
PF2 - Increase the Jump Preparation track by 1

Harsh Reality wrote:
Fail changed to -1 morale, -1 food
PF1 - Every human may draw 2 Faith skill cards

Rookie Mistake wrote:
PF1 - Current player may look at one civilian and then move it to an adjacent space sector

Visions of Your Own Death wrote:
Fail changed to President discards 2 skill cards, then roll a die. If 4 or less, President is executed
PF1 - The President and the Current Player may draw 2 Skill Cards (may come outside of their skillset)

Not to be Human wrote:
PF1 - Current player may remove up to 3 raiders from one space area

Road Less Travelled will NOT have Prove Faith icon
Confrontation at Gunpoint wrote:
PF2 - The President may move one player from the Brig to any location on Galactica

Messengers from God wrote:
PF2 - +1 morale

Frak Earth wrote:
PF1 - Revealed Cylons may draw 2 Faith skill cards


This is my final idea. If this isn't elegant enough, I'm scrapping the whole thing
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Jan Itor
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TDaver wrote:
Okay, screw it, there shouldn't be a secondary skill check thing.

Guide them to their Destiny, Godsent, Touch Their Souls and Despite Their Differences (in other words all Faith cards but Higher Power, Prayer Heard, Blind Faith and Leap of Faith) get an infinity symbol.

There will be a number next to the Prove Faith icon (1 or 2). If there are that many infinity symbol'd cards in the check the positivish effect triggers.

Deciphering Music wrote:
PF2 - Increase the Jump Preparation track by 1

Harsh Reality wrote:
Fail changed to -1 morale, -1 food
PF1 - Every human may draw 2 Faith skill cards

Rookie Mistake wrote:
PF1 - Current player may look at one civilian and then move it to an adjacent space sector

Visions of Your Own Death wrote:
Fail changed to President discards 2 skill cards, then roll a die. If 4 or less, President is executed
PF1 - The President and the Current Player may draw 2 Skill Cards (may come outside of their skillset)

Not to be Human wrote:
PF1 - Current player may remove up to 3 raiders from one space area

Road Less Travelled will NOT have Prove Faith icon
Confrontation at Gunpoint wrote:
PF2 - The President may move one player from the Brig to any location on Galactica

Messengers from God wrote:
PF2 - +1 morale

Frak Earth wrote:
PF1 - Revealed Cylons may draw 2 Faith skill cards


This is my final idea. If this isn't elegant enough, I'm scrapping the whole thing



How about PF 1- Look at Valen200's loyalty card. If he's cylon, give him a cookie.


I will get so many cookies.
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Mateusz Kominiarczuk
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Quote:
There will be a number next to the Prove Faith icon (1 or 2)

Scrap this -- no numbers, just the icon. Please, add it to the Leap of Faith (I don't see why should it not have one as it has no "skill check ability" already). Consider new Treachery proposed by Mark to allow spiking.

One more small change: Messengers from God already provide Morale boost on Pass. "+1 Morale" from PF virtually changes the Skill Check into "Pass: +2 Morale, Fail: No effect", and I'm not sure it's exactly right. With that in mind, I propose changing PF effect on this crisis card into:
Quote:
PF1: Faith Skill Cards in this skill check count as positive strength.

or
Quote:
PF1: Each faith Skill Card in this skill check counts as double strength (before totaling the strength).

Thus it remains "Pass: +1 Morale, Fail: -1 Morale", with difficulty: 8 and LEA only, but with high probability that Faith will be used.

Also, I'd increase Deciphering Music to PF3, and Harsh Reality to PF2 -- or alternately, forgot about counting the PF icons altogether (which would make it "beneficial Consequences with the risk of inadvertently spiking the test").
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Atomic Robo
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Valen200 wrote:
How about PF 1- Look at Valen200's loyalty card. If he's cylon, give him a cookie.


I will get so many cookies.

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Jan Itor
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LL6869 wrote:
Valen200 wrote:
How about PF 1- Look at Valen200's loyalty card. If he's cylon, give him a cookie.


I will get so many cookies.




I am not sure that is enough.
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Atomic Robo
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Valen200 wrote:
LL6869 wrote:
Valen200 wrote:
How about PF 1- Look at Valen200's loyalty card. If he's cylon, give him a cookie.


I will get so many cookies.




I am not sure that is enough.

For you, buddy!
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David Turczi
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Reposting my "state of cards" post:

Faith skill cards
A seventh deck, called Faith. Both Cylons and humans can both use their text, noone has it in their skill set, and by default it is negative in every skill check.

Everyone except the first player starts the game with 1 extra Faith skill card (beside the normal 3)

Everyone (humans, cylons, brigged people, people in space, etc) gain the following ability:
Quote:
Movement: Draw 1 Faith Skill Card.



1-2: 1-2: 1-3: 3-5: 3-5: 4-5: 0: 6:


Destinations


Crisis cards
Prove Faith (infinity symbol) wrote:
If amount of Skill Cards with the infinty symbol reach or exceed the number printed next to the infinity symbol (or 1, if nothing is printed) trigger the printed effect


And one in the Colony deck:


Super Crises


Quorum Cards
Three new:


Changes in existing cards:
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I still have wording issues with your Skill Cards. I posted those changes here.


Stay and Fight is still too wordy. First off, I'd remove the 'remove up to 2 civilians' part (and, if you keep it, it should be 'remove up to 2 civilian ships' - see the Communications board space). Here's how I'd word it (see destination card Lion's Head Nebula for wording consistency)

Gain 1 morale. The CAG may activate up to 4 unmanned vipers. After the Reset Jump Preparation Track step of this jump, advance the Pursuit Track to Auto-Attack and advance the Jump Preparation track by 3.

The problem I see with the above implementation is it requires the CAG to place civilian ships for advancing the Pursuit Track. So, back to your wording (although I hate it, as it's really clunky):

Gain 1 morale. The CAG may activate up to 4 unmanned vipers. After the Reset Jump Preparation Track step of this jump, move all ships from the Cylon Fleet Board to the main board and advance the Jump Preparation track by 3.


The Hub should be worded slightly differently.

Lose 1 fuel and destroy one raptor. For the remainder of the game, revealed Cylon players cannot contribute Skill Cards into Super Crisis skill checks.


I like the Crisis cards. I'll look at the wording more closely later. My only immediate nitpick is that "Confrontation at Gunpoint" should not have the 'at' capitalized, but "Not to Be Human" should have 'be' capitalized.


See my suggested wording changes for Quorum cards here.
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Robert Stewart
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Ripshawd wrote:
Stay and Fight is still too wordy. First off, I'd remove the 'remove up to 2 civilians' part (and, if you keep it, it should be 'remove up to 2 civilian ships' - see the Communications board space). Here's how I'd word it (see destination card Lion's Head Nebula for wording consistency)

Gain 1 morale. The CAG may activate up to 4 unmanned vipers. After the Reset Jump Preparation Track step of this jump, advance the Pursuit Track to Auto-Attack and advance the Jump Preparation track by 3.

The problem I see with the above implementation is it requires the CAG to place civilian ships for advancing the Pursuit Track.


Does it? Or does going direct to Auto-Attack skip the civilian placement? ("Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200")
 
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Carl Bussema
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You could just say "advance to auto-attack (do not place civilian ships as a result of this advancement)" -- if you just say "move ... to the main game board," you don't actually specify that they have to be moved into the correct spots, and someone with an axe to grind and ulterior motives will try to twist that.
 
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Mateusz Kominiarczuk
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Question about the Frak Earth supercrisis. What if it Fails once the endgame (eg. the Colony, but it may be anything) has been already triggered?
 
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