Marcin Woźniak
Poland
Bydgoszcz
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And towards more plausible results.
I quote this from 'VIGILANT GUNNER' thread
Just to make sure I am right, because it influences gameplay dramatically.
uweeickert wrote:
"Bonus moves take place after regular movement, so one does want the card to allow a defender to attack a vehicle when it moves into earlier hexes.
Ex: A T34 with two bonus moves would be vulnerable in its initial move and also in the first bonus move.
How do we word this?
I do not want this as a Veteran card, since it should be available for all units at any time. "
Is this what You recommend? I want this as a rule too. That would make ambushes of well camouflaged AT's adequate, even in the open.
The way it is in original rules, a tank may make a first move into Short range of hidden AT, see it (making it FACE some direction) AND move one (or two more hexes) outmaneuvering AT.
I did not like this rule, as best defense plans were sometimes ruined (or relied on) the hex tank begins its movement.
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Jesse LeBreton
United States
Kingsford
Michigan
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Funny. I didn't get to this thread until after I read the comments on the BT-7 one. So you are already opening the topic of my last post there, kinda.
I had a hard time understanding what you are getting at. What do you want as a rule? That bonus moves are clearly defined as moves that take place after normal movement(different from my conception and I suspect most everyone elses) or are you just asking to have this card suggestion go official? In any case, perhaps it's best to keep it all in one place and restate your comment in the Vigilant Gunner thread. Just a friendly suggestion.
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dustin boggs
Canada
Victoria
BC
these are my overtexts and
now I am without geek gold :(
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I quit playing because of this. I have no interest in being a playtester.
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Jesse LeBreton
United States
Kingsford
Michigan
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That's a dumb comment. Shows you don't even understand what's being discussed. You act like the game is broken, and can't be played in its current form! As if! No, it's extremely streamlined and elegant. Hence the numerous awards and high BGG rating. Go Troll somewhere else.
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Jesse LeBreton
United States
Kingsford
Michigan
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The thread title is misleading. This discussion is nothing more than a new card proposal not to imply something else about changing the rules if the game.
Another good reason to close this thread and keep the discussion about the impact if the Vigilant Gunner card in the original thread. You may get Trolls wishing to hate on the game and jump on misleading thread titles like this one.
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dustin boggs
Canada
Victoria
BC
these are my overtexts and
now I am without geek gold :(
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I am not trolling, I enjoyed the game ok but everytime I went to play the rules were updated to the point that all the original counters are invalidated. Excepting of course if I wish to play the game as it shipped originally.
And the title is misleading
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James Palmer
Canada
Kitchener
Ontario
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ramkitty wrote: I am not trolling, I enjoyed the game ok but everytime I went to play the rules were updated to the point that all the original counters are invalidated. Excepting of course if I wish to play the game as it shipped originally.
And the title is misleading
I would agree that the rules have updated more often than they should have (I think instead of having 2 rules updates between AtB and SoS we should have held off and had all updates coincide with SoS launch.) However, the original AtB counters are not invalidated. To use them, you still have to use the original rules for when you attack a unit with a different colored attack value than the enemy defense value, but otherwise they work fine within the new rule system. The new counters are prettier and have some more details, but the old ones are definitely not completely invalidated.
It was also Uwe's first attempt at game design and publication - his choice was either to stick it out with all his original design decisions or evolve the game. I'd say 99% of the changes that have been made are considered to be improvements by just about everyone, so I'm personally glad of the overall decision to keep the game evolving.
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James Palmer
Canada
Kitchener
Ontario
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Also, just to clarify - Uwe is suggesting that this be a new card, but be a regular action card, rather than a veteran card. He is not suggesting that this be a rules change.
At least, that is how I interpreted what he said.
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Marcin Woźniak
Poland
Bydgoszcz
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If that is what Uwe meant (just a card) then I am sorry for misleading thread. But quick firing guns that are hidden and fresh should have option to fire at tanks.
Suggestion
Maybe simplifying "vigilant gunner" - an action card, that allows for a free shot (and shot only!) even before movement is completed, for a cost of 1 CAP. (I think that paying two actions may be just too expensive.)
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Jesse LeBreton
United States
Kingsford
Michigan
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MarcinW wrote: If that is what Uwe meant (just a card) then I am sorry for misleading thread...
Maybe simplifying "vigilant gunner" - an action card, that allows for a free shot (and shot only!) even before movement is completed, for a cost of 1 CAP. (I think that paying two actions may be just too expensive.)
Marcin I believe you are not understanding the card. I will post your quote in the Vigilant Gunner thread, and try to help you understand it more fully.
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uwe eickert
United States
Helena
Ohio
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Yes, we are talking about just adding some action cards to the deck that adds some extra tension. Allowing vehicle uninterrupted multiple moves is important, because it models the speed of a unit, the defenders reaction time, small windows of LOS opportunity, etc.
With this card, if a player pulls it, an opponent will no be a sure that slipping quickly across a break in cover will be successful. It also gives a firefight designer the option to seed a player's action card hand at the beginning of a firefight to simulate a vigilant defense area, etc.
All of my questions have been answered and internally we are now moving on.  The wording will be to the effect that a defender may fire at an opponent after he moves into any hex, even if in mid move.
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I think such a card(s) would be a wonderful addition to the game!
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Marcin Woźniak
Poland
Bydgoszcz
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All my questions have been answered to the fullest, therefore I am closing this thread.
Great games attract great people!
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