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Subject: Battle Savvy and Goblinoids rss

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A.T. Selvaggio
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Webster
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I generally like the introduction of the Battle Savvy rules which allow units to battle back even when not supported. But I am curious about importing those rules back into the original base game when Goblins are used. Because of their freightened status they would be better off attacking units that could not battle back (under the original rules they would target lone or isolated units). Battle Savvy seems to take away this tactic.

Any opinions about importing Battle Savvy to the base game?
 
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Vasilis
Greece
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atsgamer wrote:
I generally like the introduction of the Battle Savvy rules which allow units to battle back even when not supported. But I am curious about importing those rules back into the original base game when Goblins are used. Because of their freightened status they would be better off attacking units that could not battle back (under the original rules they would target lone or isolated units). Battle Savvy seems to take away this tactic.

Any opinions about importing Battle Savvy to the base game?


Battle Savvy should be used as normal when playing with the original game. It's official, not a variant or a home rule.

Battle Savvy are the recommended rules for playing BattleLore even when no expansions are used.
 
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Kent Reuber
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Retrofitting is easy--you just eliminate the rule that a unit can't battle back unless supported.

Dwarves are still bold by default, that is, they can ignore a flag even if not supported. Goblins are still frightened; they can battle back if not supported, but if they retreat, then they still retreat extra hexes and roll for losses.
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A.T. Selvaggio
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Webster
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Bowmangr wrote:
atsgamer wrote:
I generally like the introduction of the Battle Savvy rules which allow units to battle back even when not supported. But I am curious about importing those rules back into the original base game when Goblins are used. Because of their freightened status they would be better off attacking units that could not battle back (under the original rules they would target lone or isolated units). Battle Savvy seems to take away this tactic.

Any opinions about importing Battle Savvy to the base game?


Battle Savvy should be used as normal when playing with the original game. It's official, not a variant or a home rule.

Battle Savvy are the recommended rules for playing BattleLore even when no expansions are used.


Thanks!
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Todd Rewoldt
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atsgamer wrote:

Any opinions about importing Battle Savvy to the base game?


I am happy to elaborate the "why" of my opinion that the game plays more interestingly without Battle Savvy - particularly with the DoW produced elements of the game - but for now I'll leave it at that.

For what it is worth, it is generally assumed that the Battle Savvy rule changes favor the Goblins (though, to me, for the very reason you pointed out it is just as much a penalty...restraining self...done ), as now Goblins that are unsupported/not bold either get to battle back, or will retreat out of most additional attacks (if not removed from the board, etc). In that sense, they are more viable in taking risks at being unsupported, in much the same way Dwarf units are.
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Jim W
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Throwing my 2 wordy cents in...I really like Battle Savvy and use it as a regular rule (base game and/or with expansions). It makes the game run a little quicker with more causalities due to the defenders battle back and, in my opinion, makes the game seem...well...more realistic (in the sphere of realism of fantasy wargames ). With how battle savvy plays out, it does give the defender two opportunities to attack with a single unit twice, once in the battle back and once on their attack turn. So, that aspect needs to be consider that before attacking a stronger defender with the Battle Savvy rule.

Now as for Goblins, I agree Battle Savvy does open the weakness Goblins have a little bit wider. However, you need to consider how Goblins move, attack, and run into your strategy. Goblins speed make them fantastic shock troops (I'm hoping I'm using the term correctly). While you are planning your Goblin attack, you should also be planning your Goblin retreat, because, face it, there's a decent chance that the Goblin will run. I try not to rely on Goblins in large frontal assaults, and if I have to, I make sure they have lots of support (make them bold) and a clear path to run.

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A.T. Selvaggio
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Webster
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Thoughtful and helpful input from all. Thanks.
 
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Playing without battle-savvy makes you very vulnerable to cavalry flanking attacks and allows the one with the best cards to assault first and gain the initiative. Without battle back there is no risk involved in attacking the last unit in a chain that doesn't have support. With battleback, flanking is still effective, but it also entails some risk that must be weighted beforehand, which imho adds a lot to the battlelore experience.

Battleback makes the game more strategic because it allows you to play defensively and survive while waiting for the correct cards to make an effective plan.
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