I am a little downcast to see Caylus out of the top 10. Eclipse shoved it out. Now I haven't played Eclipse, so naturally I'm not for Eclipse passing Caylus, which is my favorite game.
Maybe someone who has played both games can make me feel better about it?
Or wait... I see two Dominions in the top 10. I don't mean to start the whole debate again, but I do believe that Intrigue should not be considered a different game from Dominion. Vaccarino himself has said that he does not see them that way.
So what should I blame... Eclipse or Intrigue? Just a little balm for my troubled mind, if you please.
I'm with you, friend. Although I have high hope for Eclipse (for scratching a different itch), Caylus deserves better. But hey, the Top 10 reflects the taste of the majority... and we know better than these plebeians.
I am a little downcast to see Caylus out of the top 10. Eclipse shoved it out. Now I haven't played Eclipse, so naturally I'm not for Eclipse passing Caylus, which is my favorite game.
Maybe someone who has played both games can make me feel better about it?
Or wait... I see two Dominions in the top 10. I don't mean to start the whole debate again, but I do believe that Intrigue should not be considered a different game from Dominion. Vaccarino himself has said that he does not see them that way.
So what should I blame... Eclipse or Intrigue? Just a little balm for my troubled mind, if you please.
Not to worry, Caylus is still the better game in my book by far. Eclipse is good, certainly better than the Dominions, but the only reason why it's climbed so fast is because it's the cult of the new.
Not to worry, Caylus is still the better game in my book by far. Eclipse is good, certainly better than the Dominions, but the only reason why it's climbed so fast is because it's the cult of the new.
Yeah, there's no way people are rating the game because they enjoy it and think it's a good game.
For the amount of crap that Caylus gets, I'm happy it's still rated as high as it is. And I'll never understand what the hype is about with Dominion, much less two Dominions.
Edit: it's kind of ironic that people are complaining about cult of the new in the Caylus forums again. If I was around BGG back in 2005/2006, I suppose it would be kind of nostalgic.
Not to worry, Caylus is still the better game in my book by far. Eclipse is good, certainly better than the Dominions, but the only reason why it's climbed so fast is because it's the cult of the new.
Yeah, there's no way people are rating the game because they enjoy it and think it's a good game.
I think you may be misunderstanding me. I'm not implying that anyone is rating the game higher than they think it deserves. I'm merely stating that the rating system may be skewed towards newer games (see the thread I linked), and also that gamers tend to be more excited about newer games, hence an initially higher rating that will probably level off with time.
I will admit that I could be completely wrong (the rating system is a mystery to us plebians). It makes little difference to me which game is rated higher. Unlike Dominion, I would be more than happy to play both Caylus and Eclipse.
I think you may be misunderstanding me. I'm not implying that anyone is rating the game higher than they think it deserves.
Well, I suppose I did extrapolate a little beyond what you were actually saying. But "cult of the new" tends to be a derisive term that seems to imply that gamers are easily distracted by shiny objects with no regard for whether or not new games are any good. As it is, it is very rare (though certainly not unheard of) for a new game to shoot up the ranks as quickly as Eclipse has. I mean, if the best, most perfect game ever was released and everyone loved it and revered it and sacrificed their children in homage to it - you would expect that game to be #1 on BGG, regardless of whether that best game ever was released last year or 10 years ago. And if new games generally got rated way higher than they deserve, then you'd see the top 10, or certainly the top 50, inundated with new games constantly, only to see those games drop off the map a year later. That really just doesn't happen very often. Dominant Species was new in 2010 and climbed the ranks pretty fast, but it continued to steadily climb until recently when it was overtaken by Eclipse. Other games released in 2011 have had good ratings but aren't anywhere near the top 10.
Quote:
I'm merely stating that the rating system may be skewed towards newer games (see the thread I linked), and also that gamers tend to be more excited about newer games, hence an initially higher rating that will probably level off with time.
If you mean that the average user rating will level off, yes. But if you think that the geek rating will drop - I think that's far from a sure thing. It hasn't happened with Dominant Species, and it never really happened with Caylus either, despite the denigration that it often takes these days. And it never happened with Dominion, no matter how much I think that it's nothing more than an ingenious mechanic in search of a game.
If it went to number 1, or dropped to number 500, it would still be exactly the same game.
It may or not matter to your particular gaming group, but if you were to meet a random group of strangers who were gamers - do you think it would be easier to get them to agree to a game of Agricola or Mare Nostrum? Based on the BGG ratings, Agricola.
If it went to number 1, or dropped to number 500, it would still be exactly the same game.
It may or not matter to your particular gaming group, but if you were to meet a random group of strangers who were gamers - do you think it would be easier to get them to agree to a game of Agricola or Mare Nostrum. Based on the BGG ratings, Agricola.
So you're group only tries games that are rated highly, even if you have the game and would like to try it?
If it went to number 1, or dropped to number 500, it would still be exactly the same game.
It may or not matter to your particular gaming group, but if you were to meet a random group of strangers who were gamers - do you think it would be easier to get them to agree to a game of Agricola or Mare Nostrum. Based on the BGG ratings, Agricola.
So you're group only tries games that are rated highly, even if you have the game and would like to try it?
If it went to number 1, or dropped to number 500, it would still be exactly the same game.
It may or not matter to your particular gaming group, but if you were to meet a random group of strangers who were gamers - do you think it would be easier to get them to agree to a game of Agricola or Mare Nostrum? Based on the BGG ratings, Agricola.
I'd talk about the game I wanted to play. If somebody needed to check the BGG rating to get validation before playing it, I'd figure I was with the wrong group anyway.
It may or not matter to your particular gaming group, but if you were to meet a random group of strangers who were gamers - do you think it would be easier to get them to agree to a game of Agricola or Mare Nostrum? Based on the BGG ratings, Agricola.
And if you reversed the positions of those games in the rankings...Agricola would still be easier to get to the table.
Good at any player count 2-5 is a big thing. Mare Nostrum is good, but really needs 6, though it can live at 5.
Eclipse, if it comes in at a good play time and works at many player counts, has an awful lot going for it and I expect it to continue to march up the rankings. And I say this having read almost nothing about it save one review. It fits the criteria of what would be expected to do well in the rankings.
Last edited Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:01 am (Total Number of Edits: 1)
It may or not matter to your particular gaming group, but if you were to meet a random group of strangers who were gamers - do you think it would be easier to get them to agree to a game of Agricola or Mare Nostrum? Based on the BGG ratings, Agricola.
And if you reversed the positions of those games in the rankings...Agricola would still be easier to get to the table.
Good at any player count 2-5 is a big thing. Mare Nostrum is good, but really needs 6, though it can live at 5.
It was just an example based on his throwing out the number 500. But since the point seems to have been missed, it's along these lines:
"I really want to try that Agricola game. I hear it's like, the best board game ever. Maybe we can try your game some other time. I never heard of that one."
Games ranked higher tend to make people's "want to play" lists more often, tend to be owned by more people and thus available to play, tend to be stocked more (when not out of print or in short supply) by game stores, etc...
Personally, I don't make any specific effort to play games in the top whatever, but here's the number of games I have/haven't played in the top 100, broken down by 20's...
top 20: 14 played / 6 not played 21 - 40: 4 / 16 41 - 60: 7 / 13 61 - 80: 2 / 18 81 - 100: 4 / 16
I'm sure that's not true for everyone, but I bet it is for a lot of people. Based on a game's ranking on BGG, more people will research the game, put it on their "want to play" list, etc... Other people will hear about the game from them, maybe research it, maybe put it on their list. If it's in the top 20, then there's a good chance I'll play it, either because it really is that great of a game that I really want to, or just as likely because there are more opportunities to play it because other people know the rules/have it/want to play it. The played-rate isn't monotonically increasing for me, but I bet that games played vs. not played gets a lot more sparse as I get away from the top of the list (until we get down into Life/Monopoly/Battleship territory).
I bring this up not because it's some amazing revelation, but because the point was made that rating doesn't matter at all. I maintain that one of the reasons it can matter is that it can mean more opportunities to play the game.
If it went to number 1, or dropped to number 500, it would still be exactly the same game.
It may or not matter to your particular gaming group, but if you were to meet a random group of strangers who were gamers - do you think it would be easier to get them to agree to a game of Agricola or Mare Nostrum? Based on the BGG ratings, Agricola.
I'd talk about the game I wanted to play. If somebody needed to check the BGG rating to get validation before playing it, I'd figure I was with the wrong group anyway.
Sorry, but no consolation is possible. Life as you know it is now ruined and meaningless. You may now die a bitter and despondent shadow of your former self, knowing that nothing will ever be good again, now that Caylus is not in the top 10 BGG rated games. I myself barely summoned the will to type this final message before shuffling off this mortal coil.
Pre-Game Coin Toss Makes Jaguars Realize Randomness Of Life
russ wrote:
Sorry, but no consolation is possible. Life as you know it is now ruined and meaningless. You may now die a bitter and despondent shadow of your former self, knowing that nothing will ever be good again, now that Caylus is not in the top 10 BGG rated games. I myself barely summoned the will to type this final message before shuffling off this mortal coil.
