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Subject: Battlelore vs Memoir 44 rss

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David Millette
United States
Henderson
Nevada
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Trying to determine if this is basically the same game wrapped in a fantasy theme. I have the entire memoir 44 collection. Not sure if I want to invest in this one too, if it simply replaces dwarves for germans. But if it's different.... That's a whole different story...

Any comments on similarities and differences would be appreciated? Anybody own both and enjoy both? Thanks
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Larry Thorne

Pittsburgh
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If you want it at all, Now is the time to get it. It's drying up in availability if you want all expansions like Memoir.
Yes, its similar.
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Dave Kudzma
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Millsboro
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Battlelore has specific range/dice combos while Memoir reduces dice based on range. There is also magic which adds another layer of swings and take-that.
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mks
Poland
Kerguntuil
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I have not played Memoir but from the rules I remember there are 2 main differences:
1 Memoir is more about fighting at distance (range firing, taking cover, etc.) while Battlelore is mix between range (rather weak archers) and melee (sword fights, cavalery charges). In comparison, other games in the series may be more melee (C&C: Ancients). there are also napoleonics and something futuristing coming out soon
2 And this one is more important: there is a Lore in BattleLore. you have magic, warcouncil, more option and more cards! That is why I baught BattleLore - IMO it gives a lot more replayability than without that factor.
I personally recommend BattleLore, I've chosen it over Memoir. And I think you would need to act fast to still get a copy..

Hopes this helps, cheers!
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Andreas Krüger
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The Lore system is the main difference, plus a certain lack of good ranged units.

Memoir has some command cards that produce similar effects like Lore cards, e. g. an Ambush is a command card in Memoir and a Lore card in Battlelore. As you play one command card plus an optional Lore card on your turn (and an optional Lore card on your opponent's turn) this makes a little difference.

The Lore effects are more extreme than what Memoir command cards give you, there are powerful attack spells, teleports etc. Some do not like that and claim that certain spells break the game. There is a notorious Cleric spell which attacks all units on or next to hills (or forests, or water) - you can imagine that this is a pretty bad experience on the receiving end.

There are no wires or foxholes in Battlelore, so this is one tactical decision less. OTOH, since you cannot attack very well from long distances, the battle is more dynamic and you must decide when to break formation for an attack, maybe with cavalry pursuit. So, there is one tactical decision more ;-).
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Rob

Tennessee
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I also have both. Battlelore is much more flexible and customisable than Memoir because of the ability to choose whether to use lore, monsters, other races, or just play straight historical.
Even with historical, you have options when Call to Arms is added: Custom battles with options such as longbow upgrades, knights, spearmen, etc add a lot of variety and flexibility.

Also, even though they use the same system, Battlelore has a more epic feel where Memoir is more of a skirmish game (which it does very well).

Hope this helps.
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Michael Cowles
United Kingdom
Christchurch
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I think BattleBack and the importance of formations to assist in being bold make a big difference in the gameplay.
With Memoir 44 it can happen that units get destroyed before you have the cards to fight back.
I like all the Command & Colours, because it gives my opponents a choice of periods without having to learn different rules - well almost and since these are themed wargames the decision should really come down to; would you enjoy fighting in the medieval period, with or without fantasy
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Todd Rewoldt
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Loveland
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mille1212 wrote:


Any comments on similarities and differences would be appreciated? Anybody own both and enjoy both? Thanks


I am not sure if you have played any of the other Commands & Colors titles aside from Memoir '44, but they all play quite differently from each other - tactics that are successful in one iteration of the game system will be found to be unsuccessful in another, mainly due to seemingly slight rule differences and unit composition and ability. This is certainly true when comparing Memoir '44 and BattleLore. The major game mechanic change of placing some of the ordering instructions/events found in the Command deck into the separate Lore deck (and then amplifying those ordering instructions and events) goes a very long way in distinguishing the games as well.

I own and play both (along with all the C&C games released - have played but not yet purchased Napoleonics, though I'll get there ), and I certainly enjoy both. The real differences in game play is a big part of why I enjoy both.

Happy to go into more detail about how the differences impact the game play in each, but that has been touched on in the posts above. Besides, the best way to exemplify the differences is to play the games Not sure if you are interested, but Vassal is a great way to test drive BattleLore, as well as get games in when face-to-face opponents are lacking.
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David Millette
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Henderson
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Appreciate the comments everyone. I have not played any of the C&C games as of yet, although I have thought about giving the base ancients game a go of it. Just figured it would be more complex than Mem 44 with a different time period.

It would seem it has similar mechanics. I gather they all do then (C&C as well), which should help me pick up the game more easily. This is a plus for me and for those that have already played Mem 44 with me.

It would seem that the mechanics are still different enough to make me feel that I'm playing a different game, not the same game wrapped in a medievil them. I like fantasy and medievel, as I'm a big fan of Lord of the Rings. This is plus too.

I think I'm going to take the plunge. Unfortunately for me, I'm a completist by nature, so I better get busy with the Days of Wonder items. My completist streak does not carry over to FFG. I will buy only those FFG items that add value to the system. I've read that many have a lot of duplication.

Are there any FFG expansions that are a must in your opinion?

Also appreciate the Vassal suggestion. I have yet to try the Vassal for any game. I looked at it a few years back for some Avalon Hill games and it appeared rather daunting for a newbie at the time. I will check into the Battlelore module though. Maybe that will go down a little easier than the AH games due to the complexity of the games.

Thanks again.
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Todd Rewoldt
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mille1212 wrote:


Are there any FFG expansions that are a must in your opinion?



I wanted Heroes to be a must, but I've managed to go all this time without playing it a single time. I still have a lot of questions about how much the produced expansions of this game match up with what the designer, Richard Borg, plays on his table, and I have suspicions that Heroes is either incomplete or a variation of how RPG elements were intended to be incorporated in the BattleLore game. Or, maybe it does exactly what it is supposed to. I am still getting plenty of mileage out of the other expansions to not have delved into Heroes yet.

I also wanted the Goblin, Dwarf, and Human FFG expansions to be must haves, in terms of providing race specific Call to Arms decks for each of those - in effect updating Call to Arms that DoW released through to the current units. It is quite possible that I just had too high, or too different expectations, but I am left disappointed with how those ended up. That said, I do appreciate the variation in units and resulting play possibilities that each of these expansions bring to the game.

Dragons take the creature aspect of the game to another level, and very much change the game play when introduced. While I still very much prefer playing the game with the "lower powered" creatures, or, really, no creatures at all, again, it is very nice having the option of playing the game with the dragon(s).

Creatures, as its name suggests, adds more creatures, and is a great way for those coming into the game to have the promotional Hill Giant and Earth Elemental creatures made available to them (though, strictly speaking the cards and creature lairs for those two are not included, easy enough to make up for that through available rules/charts - not sure how this jibes with your completionist nature ). If I had to say one of the FFG expansions was a must have, it would be this one. Those familiar with me won't find it a shock to find out that I am not thrilled with the updated creature rules that are a part of this expansion, however.

Quote:
Also appreciate the Vassal suggestion. I have yet to try the Vassal for any game. I looked at it a few years back for some Avalon Hill games and it appeared rather daunting for a newbie at the time. I will check into the Battlelore module though. Maybe that will go down a little easier than the AH games due to the complexity of the games.


Feel free to send me a geekmail, or email (t_rewoldt at hotmail.com) - I would be all to happy to get you up to speed with both Vassal and BattleLore. Everybody has different ideas about accessibility and what that means for vassal, but I find it quite intuitive once one is familiar with the interface, and not very difficult to set up in the first place, especially if someone has confirmed that one has set it up properly
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