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21 Posts

Cyclades: Hades» Forums » General

Subject: Lukewarm on the original, will I like the expansion? rss

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Jason Rupp
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Hey everyone.

I'm trying to decide if I should pick up this expansion when it comes out. When Cyclades first came out, I thought I would enjoy it a lot. I love the greek mythology a lot. However, it was a bit of a letdown. Here's what I didn't like

*Fighting does not happen very often. It's so hard to set up a battle. In our first game, there were 0 combats. Me and another player set up a cold war scenario where neither player wanted to attack. Finally, I was able to squeak out a 2nd metropolis on a turn in which I made the attack impossible. Everyone else wasn't too amused.
*Some of the creatures are way more powerful than the rest. The Pegasus is a bit unfair imo.
*I'm not a huge fan of the fact that you can't attack someone if they're down to one island.
*I'm not a very big fan of the Zeus power cycling through the creature pile.

For those of you that have played it already, does it change the game enough that I would enjoy it more? Is combat easier to accomplish? People in my group feel letdown by the game when they build up an army and don't fight the entire game (or only fight a single battle).

Thanks in advance for any input!
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Stephen Sanders
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Henderson
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I pretty well have the same beefs you have in your list and also wonder about the expansion "fixing" any of these issues. After 5 plays I traded my original copy away. This could be a great game, and I could live with some of the complaints if it was more balanced.
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Fabien Conus
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rrrrupp wrote:

*Fighting does not happen very often. It's so hard to set up a battle. In our first game, there were 0 combats. Me and another player set up a cold war scenario where neither player wanted to attack. Finally, I was able to squeak out a 2nd metropolis on a turn in which I made the attack impossible. Everyone else wasn't too amused.
*Some of the creatures are way more powerful than the rest. The Pegasus is a bit unfair imo.
*I'm not a huge fan of the fact that you can't attack someone if they're down to one island.
*I'm not a very big fan of the Zeus power cycling through the creature pile.


1. Fighting really depends on the players. But with the arrival of Hades, who is a very aggressive god, you will definitely have more fights.

2. Pegasus is still there, but since the creature deck gets bigger with the arrival of the heroes, it will spawn less often.

3. I personally don't like games where a player can be eliminated during the game, so I guess it is just a matter of taste. This doesn't change with the expansion

4. Zeus power is reduced for the same reason as #2. In addition, Zeus cannot discard heroes, so if the row is full of heroes, Zeus cannot act any more.

That said, concerning #2, yes, some creatures are really powerful, but it is your choice to get it or not. Is it powerful enough for you to spend a lot of money to get it ?
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Jason Rupp
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How often does Hades come up? It sounds like Hades will allow for people to set up ships AND attack in the same turn? That right there would probably solve the combat problem my group had with the original if he is available enough.

Are the heroes an issue at all? I initially had this on my wishlist until I saw the hero that let's you hide a metropolis... it doesn't seem fair for someone to have a metropolis that cannot be taken. What's to stop that player from winning at that point? After reading it again, it almost sounds like you can only sacrifice her AS you build the metropolis, which adds difficult timing. Maybe I'm reading that wrong though.

Also, a lot of the hero powers allow for an instant metropolis, catapulting someone near their first metropolis suddenly into a game winner. The only saving factor is that you have a one turn warning before they may sacrifice him. Maybe that's enough time to try killing him?
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Aaron Bohm
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Appleton
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I would probably say no, if you don't like Cyclades you are not going to like it w/expansion.

That being said, why don't you like Cyclades again? First off, it sounds like you are playing it as a 2 player game. While it is an okay 2 player game, the game is much better 3 player+. 3 and 5 players are optimal imo. You mentioned lack of combat and that might just be the people you play with. We played last week and there was a battle every turn; now that's atypical for us but still. (the only reasons for battle are to gain income or take over buildings/metropolis so usually you are only setting up 2-4 crucial battles throughout the game and everything else is defence). Usually you have people going for metropoli via other means while having to watch their back for the Ares player, don't forget sea battles as well.

Also, keep in mind you can't attack the last person's island UNLESS it wins you the game, that is a very important if to consider (besides, most times you do not want to get someone down to their last island anyway as it becomes a huge advantage for them).

The creature powers are powerful, in fact they are game changers, but this makes it more tense... the first god gets first choice at the creatures which makes the bidding more interesting. Our last game I came across a situation where all three of the creatures were bad for me - I could either bid low on a later god and hope no one would buy them or bid high on the first god and only afford 2 of the 3. I did the later and got smashed by the 3rd creature that I couldn't afford.

And the Zues Cycling ability is an intereting way to "sneak" in a win. These elements are what make this game one of my favorites so if you don't like them, they are still all going to be present with the expansion.

Plus it remains to be seen whether the new adds will help to balance any current game issues and make other strategies viable or whether in fact it will simply throw everything out of balance.

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Fabien Conus
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rrrrupp wrote:
1. How often does Hades come up? It sounds like Hades will allow for people to set up ships AND attack in the same turn? That right there would probably solve the combat problem my group had with the original if he is available enough.

2. Are the heroes an issue at all? I initially had this on my wishlist until I saw the hero that let's you hide a metropolis... it doesn't seem fair for someone to have a metropolis that cannot be taken. What's to stop that player from winning at that point? After reading it again, it almost sounds like you can only sacrifice her AS you build the metropolis, which adds difficult timing. Maybe I'm reading that wrong though.

3. Also, a lot of the hero powers allow for an instant metropolis, catapulting someone near their first metropolis suddenly into a game winner. The only saving factor is that you have a one turn warning before they may sacrifice him. Maybe that's enough time to try killing him?


(numbers added by me)

1. Hades comes up theoretically every 4 or 5 turns. And yes, Hades lets you buy troops, and ships and attack on the same turn.

2. and 3. Heroes are a great addition to the game. Yes, some of them let you build a metropolis, but the cost is always high. The hero that lets you hide a metropolis does exist, but you need two metropoli to win the game ! And you will have spent so much money on your hero, that that second metropolis will be badly defended.
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Jason Rupp
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Thanks Fabien. I think Hades might make it worth trying.
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Jason Rupp
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Never Knows Best wrote:
I would probably say no, if you don't like Cyclades you are not going to like it w/expansion.

That being said, why don't you like Cyclades again? First off, it sounds like you are playing it as a 2 player game. While it is an okay 2 player game, the game is much better 3 player+. 3 and 5 players are optimal imo. You mentioned lack of combat and that might just be the people you play with. We played last week and there was a battle every turn; now that's atypical for us but still. (the only reasons for battle are to gain income or take over buildings/metropolis so usually you are only setting up 2-4 crucial battles throughout the game and everything else is defence). Usually you have people going for metropoli via other means while having to watch their back for the Ares player, don't forget sea battles as well.

Also, keep in mind you can't attack the last person's island UNLESS it wins you the game, that is a very important if to consider (besides, most times you do not want to get someone down to their last island anyway as it becomes a huge advantage for them).

The creature powers are powerful, in fact they are game changers, but this makes it more tense... the first god gets first choice at the creatures which makes the bidding more interesting. Our last game I came across a situation where all three of the creatures were bad for me - I could either bid low on a later god and hope no one would buy them or bid high on the first god and only afford 2 of the 3. I did the later and got smashed by the 3rd creature that I couldn't afford.

And the Zues Cycling ability is an intereting way to "sneak" in a win. These elements are what make this game one of my favorites so if you don't like them, they are still all going to be present with the expansion.

Plus it remains to be seen whether the new adds will help to balance any current game issues and make other strategies viable or whether in fact it will simply throw everything out of balance.



Our only games (2) were 5 player. The problem we have with combat is the system itself. It's a 2 step system. First you have to move your ships, then you have to move your figures. To add to this problem, only one of the actions can be picked per turn per player. If you see someone wants to attack you, a wise player will bid up ares and make the other player give up or end up spending so much money that they have nothing left on troops. Also, through Posidon/creatures, you can destroy the ship link before they have a chance to get Ares and then it's back to square one. I think a second option for attacking will spice things up enough though. Especially since it will change this to a 1 step system. I have a feeling Hades will be expensive in our games.

Our game probably sounded like a 2 player game because usually only 1 player is in a position to attack your metropolis island.

To be clear, we enjoyed the game but it was a letdown for us. Everything about the game sounded great, but it didn't work very well due to way combat is.
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Fabien Conus
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rrrrupp wrote:

Our only games (2) were 5 player. The problem we have with combat is the system itself. It's a 2 step system. First you have to move your ships, then you have to move your figures. To add to this problem, only one of the actions can be picked per turn per player. If you see someone wants to attack you, a wise player will bid up ares and make the other player give up or end up spending so much money that they have nothing left on troops. Also, through Posidon/creatures, you can destroy the ship link before they have a chance to get Ares and then it's back to square one. I think a second option for attacking will spice things up enough though. Especially since it will change this to a 1 step system. I have a feeling Hades will be expensive in our games.

Our game probably sounded like a 2 player game because usually only 1 player is in a position to attack your metropolis island.

To be clear, we enjoyed the game but it was a letdown for us. Everything about the game sounded great, but it didn't work very well due to way combat is.


To me, 5 players is the best setup.

But you're right. Cyclades is not a wargame. It is a game where you slowly and carefully build your civilization on the board. An attack must be prepared, rushing into battle blindly will most likely result in a failure.

I personally enjoy that. The building, preparing, planning ahead.
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kent Anderson
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Five players is the way to go.

We played last Friday night and 4 out of the five players had a chance to win on the last turn.


I have many war games, this is a nice twist from that.

I have read the rules for the expansion. With that said I think the addition of Hades will cause more fighting to take place.

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Andy Kerslake
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I have played this game a lot now and have had varying degrees of enjoyment. I have had 5 player games where pretty much nothing happened, the players built up their buildings, there was the odd fight (one or two) then somebody won by using a creature/action combo. Really boring and I thought I'd bought a duff game. I stuck with it and had some more enjoyable games with 4 players - but still the pace felt slow. Tonight I played 3 player - wow, much better. Our incomes were loads higher as the cornicopia was being picked up regularly. Although the gods needed to be cycled through, we rattled through the turns. Lots of battles, sea battles, multiple mythical creatures were used. Interestingly, the player who went down to 1 island won the game by winning 4 coins, plus cornicopia per turn, building up a massive army and striking a weak neighbouring island (already had a metropolis).

I have just read about hte expansion and was very interested - until I saw the price, £33. Gutted as this is way more than i can justify on the contents. If anyone picks it up and hates it, get in touch, I'll buy it off you!
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Jason Rupp
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By the way, I ended up pre-ordering this. Thanks for the information everyone. I'm hoping that Hades will increase the amount of battles enough to make it more fun for my group.

Now I just have to wait...
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Josh Malbon
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rrrrupp wrote:
By the way, I ended up pre-ordering this. Thanks for the information everyone. I'm hoping that Hades will increase the amount of battles enough to make it more fun for my group.

Now I just have to wait...


Please keep us informed. I have a lot of the same feelings you do, and would like to hear 'hopefully' the happy result.laugh
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Phil Dawson
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Shaven_Wookiee wrote:

I have just read about hte expansion and was very interested - until I saw the price, £33. Gutted as this is way more than i can justify on the contents. If anyone picks it up and hates it, get in touch, I'll buy it off you!


This was a must buy for me until I saw the price. Waiting to see reviews now, and get more of an idea as to if it's worth the asking price.
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Maarten D. de Jong
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rrrrupp wrote:
By the way, I ended up pre-ordering this. Thanks for the information everyone. I'm hoping that Hades will increase the amount of battles enough to make it more fun for my group.

Many of the issues you raised about the base game are bugging me as well, but I'm rather afraid that the expansion doesn't change things enough to make the game palatable to me. That doesn't mean it's a bad game... just not my game. Still, I'm most curious to hear about your findings.
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Jason Rupp
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I'll try to put out a review since it seems that a lot of people shared my feelings about the first game. Now I just need it to ship already :)
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Johan Haglert
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Never Knows Best wrote:
...
If you play the game as a civ-builder then yes there probably won't be much fighting.

If you instead try to defend your income, islands and buildings then others will also see the defense as a possible threat and hence build up their armies to. And well, add some buildings and/or lot of cornucopias to that.

Though I've only played 2 player games, with more players I would feel like say everyone got a metropolis, the first one doing a successful attack wins.. Eh?
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Jason Rupp
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We got this game to the table last night. Expect a review later today about our experiences! I hope it will help you guys on the fence that had similar feelings about the base game.
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Johan Haglert
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Where do I subscribe to that one then? =P
 
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Jason Rupp
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In case you don't have the game subscribed, my review is up.

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/8686768
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Johan Haglert
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rrrrupp wrote:
In case you don't have the game subscribed, my review is up.

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/8686768
Thank you. I don't know whatever I would had appreciated it as much. But it's available here in Sweden after having been available in Germany for long. If I order it at least I "save" 70 SEK by ordering it from Germany ... Earlier I didn't knew how much I would "save" on that ..
 
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