Tom Vasel
United States
Homestead
Unspecified
Top 100 Games of all Time
Dice Tower Convention, July 2012!!!!
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Interviews by an Optimist # 61 - Scott Starkey
Scott says this about himself…
I have been a lifelong resident of Indiana. I graduated (twice!) from Purdue University with bachelor's degrees in Creative Writing and Computer Technology, where I'm now working as a computer guy. I have a wonderful, understanding wife, and two better-than-average kids.
I have always been into games as long as I can remember, enjoying Avalon Hill stuff and D&D during the early 80s. While at Purdue during the late-80s, I became a cartoonist, reporter, and editorial writer for the student newspaper there. I drew a daily cartoon strip called "The Undergraduate's Guide" about a depressed newt-person and his roommates
living the college life. During the same time, I was a member of a local improvisational comedy troupe, and I hooked up with a regular Friday-night group that played Eon Cosmic Encounter, loaded with expansions.
Cosmic really inspired me, and the kind folks from Mayfair allowed me to help playtest their version of CE. About this time I started experimenting with my own game designs, and created a handful of mildly lousy prototypes. I hoped to send them off to a publisher, or maybe even run my own game company one day.
Fast forward a few years. I kept churning out the occasional prototype game. Some of them got me excited for a while, but I never went further than the prototype stage out of apathy or fear. However, in January of 2001, I made a New Year's Resolution that I would no longer think of myself as a "Game Design Hobbyist", but rather as a "Game Designer." When I made that subtle mental-shift, the ideas started coming to me
faster than I could prototype them. And some of them I thought were pretty good.
The mental-shift seemed to spill over into a fledgling art career, too. I made a few contacts over the internet, and met Jim Doherty of Eight Foot Llama. I mentioned that I was a cartoonist; he needed some funny monkey art, so I started doing freelance illustration work for him. Other game illustration contracts have come as a result from my work with Jim.
My best game design from that first batch of original game ideas was Sticky Gulch, which I went on to self-publish, forming Dogtown Games. I've also since added a few more illustration credits to my name. And yes, more game designs and artwork are waiting in the wings.
Tom Vasel: Does Dogtown games have anything in the works? If so, can you tell us about it?
Scott Starkey: Well, at the moment, Dogtown Games is just a sole proprietorship, which means Dogtown Games is me, and I am Dogtown Games. (Hi, my name is Dogtown Games... Glad to meet you!) So, when Scott Starkey has something in the works, so does Dogtown Games. DG encompasses my game designs, my art projects, and my publishing.
So, if you're asking if I have any projects in the works, I'm currently working for Jim Doherty of Eight Foot Llama illustrating his new game called "The Nacho Incident", which seems like it might be about as nutty and fun as his other games. Ay carumba!
I have also been subcontracting with MJS Creations on a couple of art projects. One features nutty cartoon art and is called "Banker's Revenge". The other features much more realistic art (for me, anyway) and is based on the Bible, called Y.P.A.W., which stands for Young People At Work. I like my illustrations for the latter project, because
it features the best picture of the prophet Nehemiah in any boardgame, ever! (In my humble opinion, of course.)
However, you may be asking, "Is Dogtown Games planning on publishing anything in the near future." If that's the case, then I will say: Definitely maybe. Publishing is hard work and expensive. I have new respect for publishers after self-producing my first game.
That being said, I have a sequel to "Mother Lode..." which has been pretty much finished for years now, called "Boot Hill of Sticky Gulch." It takes place after Sticky Gulch starts to turn into a ghost town. You know, Sticky Gulch is a tough place. Its citizens are in constant peril and are constantly dying. Disease and constant gunfights take their
inevitable toll. This is bad news if you're an ordinary citizen of Sticky Gulch, but it's big business if you're the undertaker! So, in "Boot Hill of Sticky Gulch" the players take on the roles of morticians in the moribund town of Sticky Gulch, trying to reap (if you pardon the term) the most profits from their clientele before Sticky Gulch turns into a ghost town.
In some ways I like it better than the original; it tends toward beer-n-pretzely side of the original. It's got a vein of dark humor combined with the wacky personalities of the citizens that really gets me laughing. There's a bit of strategy in there (albeit not much), but it sure is fun. Cheap plug: I plan on demoing "Boot Hill..." at GenCon Indy 2005 at the Sticky Gulch tournament. And I'll try to have some sort of version beyond my prototype that people could actually purchase.
I'm also working on a much more strategic themed card game design that I love. It's a much more mature work than anything I've done before, and it's been over a year in the tweaking. (I've got time, and I'm a little picky when it comes to games, as my wife will attest to.) I'm not sure I have the resources to publish it properly, so I may have to take the design to someone else who does that sort of thing better than me. Because of that, I really don't want to reveal too much information at this time.
Tom Vasel: So, in an average day, how much illustration do you do?
Scott Starkey: I estimate that last year I did about 100 pieces of artwork for various projects, some of them for my own personal use (personal prototypes and stuff). So, I guess I do about a third of an image a day. Not a whole lot.
If I've got a current illustration project on my desk, I can usually turn out about one good color image per day, and fit it in with the rest of my work and life. Black and white images don't take as long.
I have been known to go on art marathons where I zoom through about 15 images in a single day, like I did for "The Penguin Ultimatum". Doing so much art in one sitting like that can be a bit hard on my psyche, though. The pictures start to talk back to me after a while, so naturally doing so many at once makes me a bit nervous. ;-)
Tom Vasel: Do you illustrate as a hobby, or a full-time job?
Scott Starkey: Oh, it's certainly just hobbyish at this point. My full time job is "computer-fixing guy," which really doesn't pay as well as it sounds. But even so, my art career is not even close to paying that kind of dough by a couple of levels of magnitude. It is, however, helping to keep Dogtown Games in the black, which is to say, paying for me to go to the occasional convention and buying miscellaneous DG needs like printer ink and orbital lasers.
I would love for art and game design to be my full time job, but you need to be really blessed and have a proper planetary alignment for that to happen. I'm not pessimistic, just practical. However, I just might be blessed, and the planets may converge in the future. I won't rule that out. But at this point, I mostly do it for fun and the challenge.
Tom Vasel: From where and whom do you draw your artistic inspiration?
Scott Starkey: Wow, good question.
I am for the most part, self-taught as an "artist." Now, my wife - she's a professionally trained artist. My stuff stinks compared to hers, but she's not interested in this sort of gig. But I still use her for help when I need a professional eye.
Occasionally (okay, more often than occasionally) I find myself totally lacking in the ability to do a client's requested piece of work. What do I do in that case? I cheat. I steal. I shamelessly copy. I look up figures in classical art. I see how other artists and cartoonists drew figures. As an example, I was totally at a loss of how to draw penguins
when I was commissioned to draw for the Penguin Ultimatum. (I think my white-lie email went, "Of course I can draw penguins!") So I peeked at how Gary Larson and Berke Breathed drew Antarctic waterfowl. I looked at real pictures of them, and artist's paintings. I sketched several of them doing activities both ordinary and nonpenguiny. And eventually, I managed to draw penguins.
Internally, I also crave to figure out the emotion of the characters that I draw. In order for me to draw figures, and especially facial expressions, often I have to "get into character." I like to understand the emotions of the things that I draw. I try to mimic the character's
face with my own face. I think there is some sort of cross-brain mental link between acting like a character and drawing it. Lately, I've been doing a lot of non-humans, so this can be a little embarassing!
Other times, I draw on music for that emotional link. If I can get a tune running through my mind, which is appropriate to the work, then that will trigger the emotion for me, too. For example, in Monkeys on the Moon, there is an image of a monkey climbing a monolith, discovering a golden banana at its peak. Throughout that drawing, I had the theme song to 2001 Space Odyssey going through my mind. The bad part about having a soundtrack running through my mind, however, is that sometimes the music "leaks out" and I tend to whistle or hum without knowing it.
Tom Vasel: What game art (not your own) do you think is superb?
Scott Starkey: Jeez, Tom. "Not your own"?? You wound me! But seriously...
I like art where "something is just about to happen" or "something just happened". That sort of action tells a story and makes tension in a piece. A non-game example would be the famous Michaelangelo scene of the Sistine Chapel where God gives life to Adam. ("Adam... pull my finger!...") The torpid hand of Adam reaching up, the hand of God
reaching down, but they don't... quite... touch... I think Michaelangelo would have been a great game illustrator. ;-)
I haven't played or bought into Magic: the Gathering seriously in about 10 years, but I remember a few of those illustrations were breathtaking. Unfortunately, the only name that sticks out in my head now was Drew Tucker, but I know there were others I really liked, too. His stuff was otherworldly and dreamy. Top notch.
I'm practically a card-carrying member of the Doris Matthäus fan club. She impresses me, because she's such a diverse artist, from cartoony to serious. And when she does "serious" work, it's very nice. And when she does cartoony stuff, well, hedgehogs and amoebas are just plain funny.
Tom Wham's art is rather old school and simplistic, but I love his stuff because it almost always makes me laugh. And I'd be remiss if I did not mention the Foglios (Phil and Kaja), who have been doing fun and awesome art since time immemoriam.
Tom Vasel: How much do you think art affects a game? Does horrible art (like in the case of Cannes) detract from a game?
Scott Starkey: Hm, I'm not sure what you mean by your reference to Cannes.
But I think a game with lousy or just plain functional art can somehow rise above its art. Take a game like Die Macher: it has somewhat bland almost purely utilitarian illustrations. But the game itself is wonderful, with rules fitting together like a well-crafted watch. Some nice illustrations might make the game more visually appealing, but it would do nothing for gameplay.
Good art, however, certainly will help to sell a product. If are considering buying one of two products of equal price, equal fun-value, and equal size, but one has superb artwork and other not, then it makes sense to buy the one with the nice artwork. Something visually appealing adds to its value. Publishers want to woo customers from the get-go.
First impressions are important.
Tom Vasel: Die Macher's artwork may be bland, but Cannes (as with all Splotter games I've seen) has horrible artwork. What factors do you think a company looks into when hiring an artist? Or in other words, how much do artists charge?
Scott Starkey: Oh, "Cannes" as in a game! I thought you meant the actual city or film festival. I'm not really familiar with any of Splotter's stuff. Hang on a sec, I'll be right back. (Checking BGG.)
OK, I'm back. Hm, well, I'm not one to really judge other people's artwork. It seems like the game designers might have wanted to do the art themselves, which I can respect. One good thing I can see in Splotter's artwork, is: It's consistent. (The critic might say, "Yeh,
consistently BAD. (snort)") Then again, people could say the same thing about my stuff. I often dance the line between saying, "My stuff really sucks!" and "Hey, my stuff is pretty good!" I think any artist worth his salt does. I don't - by any stretch of imagination - think that my "mad art skillz" are all that great.
I don't know what criteria publishers look for when selecting an artist. Name? Matching of art style to the game's theme? Budget? Probably those factor in. Also, I'm not sure how much other artists charge for work. I'm sure it depends on the medium they work with, and the product that they put out. It also depends on the company that hires them. Hasbro/WotC/AH has deeper pockets than most small publishers like Splotter.
I usually scale my fee for artwork depending on several factors: how much money does the company have? How complicated is the artwork they want? What sort of republishing rights are there? How much do I like the publisher? So far, I've only illustrated for small publishers, but some have deeper pockets than others. I've done projects for gratis, and I've done projects for a little more than that, but not much. I probably don't charge enough, but c'est la vie. On the other hand, I don't want to gouge small publishers, because I know what that's like.
But if you want some artwork, send me an email telling me what you want, and we can cut a deal.
Tom Vasel: How would an independent publisher go about looking for an artist?
Scott Starkey: Simple answer: HIRE ME!!!! I'M BEGGIN' YA, HERE!
More complicated answer: Try to find art that you really like that seems to fit the theme of your game. If you see artwork in a game you like, do a bit of investigating to find out who did it. Many games give illustration credits nowadays. If the artist has a website, Google can help you track them down. Barring that, perhaps you can check with the
company who produced the game, and they can probably hook you up with the artist. (I've found that most companies, especially the smaller ones, are extremely friendly and helpful when it comes to giving out information like that. There is a camaraderie between indy publishers that is really nice.)
A third trick might be to post on one of the public forums about that sort of thing: bgdf.com or boardgamegeek.com to name a couple. Game artists occasionally hang around there, looking for the occasional job. Or, someone can point you in the direction of a good, budding artist looking for the "big break." Make sure you check out their portfolio first, or see samples of their work!
Tom Vasel: Okay, the reverse question - how would an artist go about looking for work?
Scott Starkey: Well, an artist would go about it as any creative person would. You've gotta work to find work. Any artist (or game designer, cartoonist, computer programmer or budding novelist) has to produce a once-a-day-something and thus hone their craft. It has to be a nearly everyday activity. This will build a portfolio of work. It can be utter
crap, but keep working.
While you do that, watch what the "masters" are doing well, and try to understand why. If you're a writer, you'd better read the top stuff in the genre you're interested in, and even some stuff outside of the genre you're interested in. If you're a game designer, play a little
sumtin'-or-sumtin' by Knizia, Sackson or Seyfarth. Then go learn Bridge, Go, Chess and Poker, and learn to play them well, even if you don't like that kind of thing.
Cartooning, writing, computer programming, game design -- They are all creative endeavors that will improve with practice. Your brain WILL get wired to do it well. Anyone can do it, but it takes practice and patience to get past the "My stuff is terrible!" block. It may actually BE terrible, but that can't stop you. Keep working.
Eventually, as you keep producing your stuff, you'll produce something you're proud of. When you get something that's the best you've got and you've polished it nicely, you may try to send it to someone else to buy. Or, possibly they would like to buy something else by you in your style. Once you finish something, put it in your portfolio and move onto
the next project. Try to sell the good stuff, but not at the expense of producing the current stuff.
Keep your ears open for any opportunities that might come your way. Opportunities for your creative stuff are out there, and you just need to be matched up with it. It does not need to be a for-pay project at first. There are many projects out there that need free help for credit. Get yourself noticed and build up your portfolio, but not at the expense of not practicing something every day. Make sure you get some sort of credit, so you can show that to people later!
The stuff you send out may receive a dozen "dings" before it sells. If you're sure it's good, be tenacious. If you're not so sure, give at least get three rejections before you toss it in File 13. And don't let rejection derail you from everyday work. Just bundle up the rejected thing and send it to the next on your list.
Tom Vasel: Of all your gaming artwork, which are you most proud of - any specific piece?
Scott Starkey: There's lots that I'm proud of, but most of all was probably one of my characters from Sticky Gulch: Carver Hill. I'd only once or twice professionally drawn African-American caricatures before that, and when I did, I had problems getting the features looking right. (Wow, that sounds terrible.) Despite my lack of experience, Carver turned out to be my one of my favorite pictures of the lot. Something about his smile and his pose makes him one of my most human characters in the set, and probably one of my best caricatures so far.
Tom Vasel: Now that you've self-published a game, would you do it again?
Scott Starkey: That's a really hard question, Tom. On the one hand, it was a big rush to create my own game. I like the occasional ego-boost of being a game designer: the pathetic occasional "Yes! They really, really like me!" self-affirmation that we all crave.
On the other, self-publishing can be a roller-coaster ride, and a big pain-in-the-caboose. Some days, I don't know if I have the fire in the belly to be a game publisher. For Sticky Gulch, I had to wear so many hats: chief architect, bug-tester, editor, designer, artist. Those were the easy ones. Then came chief financer, accountant, publisher, marketer, convention organizer, warehouser and salesman. All of those take a heck of a lot of work, and I now have much respect for those people that do it regularly.
So, I realize that there are people out there that do the publishing thing much better than me. So, when I come out with my next game, I'm going to send it out, first. I'm going to let some professional publishers take a look at it. I will suffer through a few rejections,
because that's easier than the full time jobs (note the plural!) of self-publishing. Besides, I enjoy game and art design more than the other stuff.
But I'm not going to rule out self-publishing in the future. I've been through it once, so I know the territory. The second publication would most certainly be easier. Maybe if I can't get publishers to take a game that I know is a winner, I might consider doing it again.
Tom Vasel: Was self-publishing profitable for you?
Scott Starkey: Unfortunately, not so far. However, my art and cartooning habit is currently helping to support my game-design habit.
Tom Vasel: You have an active internet presence. How important is the internet to an aspiring game designer?
Scott Starkey: Well, I think it can be helpful for networking, certainly. So, in that regard, it can be a great tool. (Not the only tool, mind you, but a great one.) On the other side, some board game companies put the Internet to good use, mobilizing their fanbase.
The Internet allows a designer to create a game, ask for feedback, and improve his or her craft, all from the comfort of the computer chair. Great sites exist like the 'Geek, the Board Game Designer's Forum (bgdf.com) and a bevy of Yahoo groups allow people can talk about the craft of game design, work on stuff together, and support each other. I
think that's pretty exciting!
Also, there are dozens of games that are released by the designer to the Internet crowd for free. New designers can get their name "out there" without losing their shirt. Twenty years ago, a game could never have such an easy distribution channel. Also, newfangled licenses like Creative Commons can protect the designer, and allow us to build on
each other's work to create some really cool games. I released a game into Creative Commons last year and hope to release more games that way in the future.
Tom Vasel: What about other networking opportunities, such as conventions and gatherings like Protospiel?
Scott Starkey: Yes, Young Grasshopper, any chance you can get your name out there is good: Enter contests like the Hippodice competition. Lurk on game companies' websites for playtesting opportunities. Attend gatherings of game designers like Protospiel. Schmooze with designers at conventions: at their booths or at seminars. You'll find your opening. And when you get your foot in the door, be ready to pounce a couple of good questions. (Questions like: "How did you get into the business?" or "Do you have any advice for someone wanting to be a game designer?" or "What are you, crazy or something?")
If you can't do any of those, join or form a local game club at the very least. Your unsuspecting fellow club-members will make ideal prototype fodder after you get to know them well. And you never know when you'll meet someone there who knows someone who has done this crazy game-design thing before.
Better yet, try to find local gamers to form a "game design circle". My friends and I formed such a club a year or two ago. We all are interested in game-design of some aspect. Some are working on computer games, some board games, and some card games, some are just gamers and casual playtesters that hang around and play other people's games. We talk about what we've done, and where we're going. We try to set a goal
to bring something new every month. Then we look at each other's stuff and give friendly but blunt advice. I can think of no better tool than to occasionally show someone my work, have them totally thrash my so-called "good ideas" (in a friendly environment, of course), then I take it back and refine it. Repeat until it's good. If you're like me, that could take a while!
Tom Vasel: Scott, thanks for taking the time to do this interview. Do you have any final things you'd like to talk about to our readers?
Scott Starkey: I really appreciate you taking the time to do the interview with me, Tom. But... but... I was hoping that... Well, this is a little awkward to ask really...
I was kinda hoping you would throw me some great question -- not just any great question -- but THE great and terrifyingly awesome question of your entire interviewing career, the one that makes people ask, "Has Vasel gone totally nutso?" If you throw out that controversial question to me, then I can come up with some audacious scintillating answer and hit it out of the ballpark. Just think of it! You know, the kind interchange that would resonate through the Internet for years to come. I want the kind of interview question that causes hype, angst, magazine covers and lawsuits. I want Internet forums to smoke under the stress of overwhelming bandwidth. I want the buzz to become so great, that the guy controlling the Great Internet Switch has to TURN OFF THE INTERNET FOR THREE WHOLE DAYS to give everyone a chance to recover. Indeed, I want
the kind of interview question that would cause mayhem in the streets. In the future, I want gamers to remember with a shudder from their BoardGameGeek-Retirement Homes: "So, you remember the great Vasel-Starkey Interview of aught-five?" So, now I've got one question for you, buddy: CAN YOU HANDLE THAT KIND OF INTERVIEW QUESTION, VASEL? HUH? CAN YOU?
Um. On second thought, maybe that wouldn't be such a good idea. Never mind!
Again, thanks for the opportunity to do the interview. It was fun. :-)
Tom Vasel
"Real men play board games"
www.tomvasel.com
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Top 100 Games of all Time
