Jo Chapman
New Zealand
Wellington
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We had an interesting situation arise in a 2-player game last night. We both went into decline the same round, then Joy came in with Diplomat Ratmen, took over most of the board by eliminating my in-decline race then declared diplomacy with my (as yet unchosen) new race. With no Ghouls available she couldn't see any reason she couldn't just sit on her 11 territories for the rest of the game, declaring diplomacy every turn and keeping me stuck in a corner.
The diplomat ability seemed way too powerful for a 2-player game so we started scouring the rules... Eventually decided that while I could not 'attack' her Ratmen, I could choose Sorcerers and use their ability to transform them.
Are we right that diplomats are still vulnerable to special powers? Is there anything else that balances the diplomat ability in a 2-player game?
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LSU LSU
United States
Virginia Beach
Virginia
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Nope. Can't use sorcerer's on an "allied" diplomat. And yes, most people agree diplomat does not work well in a 2 player game. There are work-arounds, but they require really aggressive races being available most of the time - to go after the declined race of the diplomat. Remember, you can attack their declined race.
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Unfortunatly the best only work around is to remove diplomat from 2 player games. If you do a quick search on the forums you'll see that it is vastly overpowered in 2 player cause not only can you score high but you can box the opponent in very easily which kills any expansion potential.
Worst is with skeletons but ratmen and amazons are pretty brutal with it also.
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Jesse Bent
United States
Wisconsin
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what i want to know is how the hell did she get 11 territories on one turn even with all empty territories (and it sounds like she was taking out your declined race) the most the diplomatic ratman could take in one turn is 7 (and that's with a good die roll)
as far as countering diplomats i had this happen today where my girlfriend got diplomatic skeletons i was able to conquer down the middle of the map and with help from the lake cut her off from half the board (if she didnt want to attack me) thats the best i got and know not all that great
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Ingólfur Valsson
Iceland
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Wait, can see declare Diplomacy on a race you have yet to pick?
I would check the FAQ for this.
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ronaldinho @boardspace.net
Taiwan
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Sorcery doesn't work against Diplomat.
It's better to simply remove Diplomat from 2er games.
By 11 regions, are you including her in decline race? The Ratmen are Diplomatic with your active race, but her in decline race isn't. (You can attack her in decline race, and she can attack your in decline race, while your active races are Diplomatic with each other.)
Quote: Wait, can see declare Diplomacy on a race you have yet to pick? I believe Diplomat targets a player, so whichever active race that player has.
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Jo Chapman
New Zealand
Wellington
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Yeah, 11 included her in-decline race - which were scattered around the board so I couldn't take more than a couple of them out.
Sounds like we'll be removing diplomat from now on... Seems a shame when everything else has something that can balance it out if you pick the right race/ability combo.
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Danny Mack
United States
Santa Fe Springs
California
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KronikAlkoholik wrote: Wait, can see declare Diplomacy on a race you have yet to pick?
I would check the FAQ for this.
Please do check the FAQ. It's in there, and in most of the printable player aids in the file section here on BGG as well. It has been clarified by DOW for a couple years now, I think, and all of these questions have been exhaustively asked, re-asked, and discussed here on the forums.
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"At the end of your turn, you may select one
opponent whose Active race you did not
attack this turn as your ally"
Joy couldn't take advantage of diplomat in this case ,because you didn't have an active race 
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LSU LSU
United States
Virginia Beach
Virginia
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RazorHed wrote: "At the end of your turn, you may select one opponent whose Active race you did not attack this turn as your ally" Joy couldn't take advantage of diplomat in this case ,because you didn't have an active race
This is incorrect, as the previous post noted. The FAQ has clarified this. You can declare a player who does not have an active race your ally.
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ahh OK , I guess it makes sense that way as well . Just not as much
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Danny Mack
United States
Santa Fe Springs
California
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Well, I don't see why it makes "less sense" that when the rules state "opponent" it means "opponent". Why does it make more sense that when the rules state "opponent" what it really means is "race"?
If the rules state you choose an opponent, then choose an opponent. There's no need of a clarification here, just comprehension.
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